Some art and a question

[ironicbees.livejournal.com]

erynn999 was hoping for some naked Bertie & Jeeves, so here they are. *cue burlesque music*





I did a gradient on the background, and didn't notice the stripy effect till it was too late to fix. Grrrr...


Have some golfing Bertie. I did this when I was trying out my different inks.



***

I've been keeping an eye out online for photos of men who look as close as possible to my mental image of Bertie, so that I could point to one and say "There, that's what I see him looking like in real life". I've collected many pictures of men who look similar to him in one way or another, but it wasn't till yesterday that I found a near perfect match. I did a bit of manipping, adding a suit & hair (the man was bald)...and it turned out he bore an unsettling resemblance to one of my cousins, who is not someone I want to be reminded of in porny situations). All this is to say that my mental image of Bertie is currently undergoing a slight shift, for that reason among others. It seems my mental real-life Bertie just doesn't look as close as I thought to my drawn Bertie. He'll probably be undergoing some subtle alterations in my art now.

So, this whole thing got me wondering: what does your mental Bertie look like? Is your image influenced by fic? The tv show? For me, the consistent features are a lean face, prominent nose, slightly receding chin, large blue eyes, sunny smile, hair anywhere from golden blond to sandy brown, nice looking but not in a head-turning way. The details keep shifting, though, which is very frustrating.

Comments

[erynn999.livejournal.com]

heee! I am squeeful and delighted! Jeeves is a shy little bugger, isn't he? I'm sure that large bowler is absolutely necessary to preserve his modesty, though. :D

I shall give some thought to my actual head-canon Bertie and Jeeves. They do shift a bit, depending on how I'm writing them, to be honest. Aside from Stephen Fry's crooked nose, my Jeeves doesn't really resemble him that much. My Bertie doesn't really resemble Hugh Laurie at all.

[erynn999.livejournal.com]

Elaborating on this, my Bertie isn't blond so much as a very fair brunet. Dark blond, maybe? I think of him as tall and slender (I think his self-description of "willowy" is accurate), with slightly wavy hair, a thin face and nose with that aristocratic feel that you're going for, but I tend to think he has a little stronger chin. I tend to see him as only about an inch or so shorter than Jeeves, so not much but enough that he has to look up slightly to see eye to eye with him. I think both of them are tall, regardless. His eyes are light, bright blue. I suspect part of the reason Jeeves didn't like a mustache on Bertie is that he's one of those guys who can't grow one to save his life -- it just looks like a darkish stain under his nose, no matter what he does.

Jeeves is tall and heavier-set than Bertie, with broad shoulders and a body that narrows nicely toward the hips, and thick, straight black hair that -- if he didn't slick it back -- would fall over his eyes in the way you see some of those 20s photos. Or maybe some of the emo kids today, I don't know. ;) I think he would muss up quite gloriously, actually; I'm sure Bertie thinks so, too. He's got very dark blue or maybe dark blue-grey eyes, large hands, and that crooked nose. He's just generally darker than Bertie in hair, skin, and eyes, in that classic "tall, dark and handsome" cliché we all see. I suspect he's got more body hair than Bertie, but not in an unpleasant way. I don't see Jeeves being one of those guys who has to mow his back. No hair would ever dare do such a thing to him.

He and Bertie are both in pretty good shape physically, though in very different ways. Bertie, after all, plays tennis and squash and golf and bicycles and has talked about running fast for distance to escape chaps with hunting crops and whatnot. Jeeves has got more upper-body stuff going for him; he could probably be a bouncer somewhere without working up a sweat, given that he likely does a good bit of manual labor for Bertie. I think Bertie could beat him on the sprint, but Jeeves has more endurance. I don't see Jeeves being that much older than Bertie. Less than ten years, definitely, and probably closer to only five or six. I think life-experience and observational skill have more to do with his maturity than years. Bertie would be a lot sharper if he'd just pay attention, but he's never really had to. Jeeves, on the other hand, depends on his wits to get by.

Generally, I tend to think Jeeves is probably better looking that Bertie in an objective sense. He probably carries himself with a lot more dignity. I suspect that if you put the two of them in identical clothing, people would think Jeeves was the one with "better breeding," in terms of how he presents himself and his apparent love of the status quo.

[ironicbees.livejournal.com]

I'm so glad you approve! Jeeves may be a bit modest now, but I'm sure he'll feel bolder soon enough and whip that bowler off. ;D Might have to get him liquored up first, though.

[hazeltea.livejournal.com]

I absolutely love these! No surprise there :) Golfing Bertie is just charming. For me, Stephen and Hugh did such a good job that they are pretty much my mental image, but your Bertie and Jeeves are very close, handsome, dapper chaps that they are.

[ironicbees.livejournal.com]

Thank you! :) Perhaps I should do more golfing Bertie? (Or maybe playing tennis, since he's canonically good at it...)

[gini-baggins.livejournal.com]

I adore Jeeves physique, and that Bertie is significantly leaner. They are so gorgeous.

My mental image of Bertie and Jeeves are pretty much Hugh and Stephen, though the details might shift depending on the fics I read. I've seen your art develop from Hugh's and Stephen's Bertie and Jeeves to your own mental image of Bertie and Jeeves and they both appeal to me very much.

[ironicbees.livejournal.com]

Thanks! :D Even though my images of the characters have shifted away from Hugh and Stephen, I can still see their influence in my drawings. Hugh especially.

[charie-caphine.livejournal.com]

***This keeps showing up as 'screened'. Why?? What am I doing wrong?!? Somebody, help! [/panic] Sorry if you got this repeted, like, five times.***

Gorgeous art, yes, as always, the nu is too much information for me, love the non-digital looks of the golfing Bertie and the socks especially arrest attention for some reason, moving on.

I don't have a solid visual idea for the boys, either. Something along the lines of some of your own stuff, and much of muuskanuikkunen's, too.

As for live-action versions, I haven't stumbled upon my Jeeves look-alike (who theoretically must appear: not too tall, strong but lean, dark-eyed, and have a sort of very correct facial features), but when I first came across young Bing Crosby photos my immediate impression was: this is Bertie. Or startlingly similar, anyway. Not to hotlink, here's why: author's photo (http://fusedfilm.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/00aa-ss-bing-crosby.jpg) on Bertie's novels (nevermind the text), suave and in the mood (http://blueopossum.homestead.com/files/crosby-bing.jpg), Bertie watching a music show (http://www.a-1video.com/Bing%20young%20C.U..JPG), just look at these eyes (http://www.doctormacro.com/Images/Crosby,%20Bing/Annex/Annex%20-%20Crosby,%20Bing_04.jpg) (!!!), got top-hat (http://warchild13.com/images/2009/07/BingCrosby.jpg), need I say more. And, he sings! =)

[ironicbees.livejournal.com]

That's strange. I didn't see your comments posted to this entry at all, I only found them when I checked my e-mail. :( I don't know what's going on.

Thank you! I tend to prefer to leave something to the imagination, but I also have great admiration for a nice male form. And sometimes it's just more fun/easier than drawing clothes!

I see what you mean about Bing. The 2nd and 3rd ones especially look Bertie-ish to me. My own Bertie looks rather similar to Phillips Holmes here (http://www.fanpix.net/picture-gallery/phillips-holmes-picture-10243241.htm) and here (http://pics.livejournal.com/ironicbees/pic/000rbb0c/g10), but a little less "pretty".

[lawnnun.livejournal.com]

To me his bone structure looks a little more Wimsey-like, but goddamn the eyes are pretty much what one pictures. XD

My headcanon Bertie is tallish, actually fairly willowy though the uncharitable might call it something else, has a slightly nervous, vaguely equine, Laurie-ish face. I tend to give him sandy hair with that faint wave just about every white person has (it's the Asians who actually have straight hair, not us! XD), and big ol' showstopper eyes. Partly because Hugh Laurie has lovely eyes, and partly because a Bertie who can't make this face O.O at you isn't Bertie. XD

As to Jeeves, he doesn't look like much like Stephen Fry in my head, though the size difference between him and Hugh Laurie looks right to me. My Jeeves has the straight black hair that would muss beautifully, and I tend to give him dark, dark eyes to match, because I'm a sucker for dark eyes. Big ol' hands, thicker than Bertie, and with one of those odd bodies where you have the signs of having done physical work, but you're trying to keep it hidden, ditto callouses on his hands, which are probably scrubbed with pumice when they start to look too sailory. I can take or leave the broken nose, but there should definitely be some real bridge to it, a natural bump and faint suggestion of a hook, even if it's pristine. Kinda Roman, I guess. Chin to go with it of course, so he doesn't look all rodenty.

[cicerothewriter.livejournal.com]

I really love these, especially the golfing picture! It's so difficult to draw a human, much less a human twisted into a slightly awkward position.

[ironicbees.livejournal.com]

Thank you! That's very true, which is why I used a photo reference for Bertie's position in the golf picture. ;)

[chocolate-frapp.livejournal.com]

I read the books years before the TV show even existed, but after seeing the TV show I automatically see the characters as Hugh and Stephen, although I love the fanart in this community and some of it doesn't look anything like Hugh or Stephen, and BTW, your fanart is quite gorgeous. (nice butt on Bertie!)

[ironicbees.livejournal.com]

Thank you! And Bertie is pleased that you like his butt.

I know what you mean about Hugh & Stephen. They fit into the roles so well that it's hard not to see the characters as looking like them.

[jameta4all.livejournal.com]

Your pictures are pretty much how I picture them in my head, though I'd prefer Jeeves to be chunkier. Not corpulent... merely rotund.

[ironicbees.livejournal.com]

It seems like most people write him as being fit and well muscled, so it's very interesting to hear from someone who sees him as having a chunkier physique. Something like Stephen in series 1 or 4, I'm guessing?

[coffee-n-retcon.livejournal.com]

Very wonderful pictures (as always!) Are you planning on colouring the golfing Bertie?

As to mental image, as I saw the television series first, it would seem that Stephen Fry and Hugh Laurie will always be my mental image. In fact, as I'm currently still working my way through the books if any description does not exactly fit Stephen or Hugh it causes be a bit of a pause.

[ironicbees.livejournal.com]

Thanks! No, I won't be coloring that one. The brown ink would be too difficult to work with on the computer.

The same thing happened to me a lot back when I still saw the characters as Hugh and Stephen. I think that was one of the things that made me shift my mental image away from them.

[saylee.livejournal.com]

Gorgeous pictures!

As far as mental images, hmmmm. I see Bertie fairly similarly to the way you've drawn him here. Your written description sounds spot-on to my mental image. My mental Jeeves is harder to pin down. Dark hair and eyes, tan-ish skin, tall. I see his build as being slightly bigger than Bertie's - certainly not fat, and not built like an ox the way some fic paints him, but solid and in good shape. I'm willing to take Bertie's word for it that his features are finely chiselled, but I haven't worked out in my head exactly what they look like. I also see him as youngish, usually 8 years older than Bertie at the outside, more likely 4-5. But he's got the whole tall, dark and handsome thing going on.

Neither my mental Bertie or my mental Jeeves look much like Hugh and Stephen, except for the height, and certain facial expressions. My mental Jeeves shares some of his eyebrow lifts and self-satisfied looks with Stephen, and my mental Bertie shares that moony-eyed look that Hugh does so well.

[erynn999.livejournal.com]

I would never go with Jeeves built like an ox. I think he's well-built, but in that early 20th century pre-steroids way that a working guy would be built if he cared about what he looked like. And you know Jeeves does. ;)

I see him as sort of built like this but without quite the muscle definition (or trying nearly so hard to preen) as some of these guys http://www.ipernity.com/doc/57114/5186112 -- so yeah, broader than Bertie but not necessarily "beefy" per se. I definitely agree with Bertie about the "finely chiseled" bit.

Hey, one can hope, eh?

[sookail.livejournal.com]

Beautiful pics!

As for mental images, thinking of Hugh and Stephen quite automatically (like many others :P). They were just so perfect doing this :P

[ironicbees.livejournal.com]

Thank you!

I'm not surprised so many see Hugh and Stephen as Jeeves and Bertie. It's a testament to how good they were in those roles. :)

[dogwoodblossom.livejournal.com]

Your version of Bertie always reminds me a bit of Roger from 101 Dalmations.

In my head Bertie and Jeeves are two guys who bear a vague passing resemblance to Hugh Laurie and Stephen Fry. Of course that is further influenced by whether or not the author of a particular fic references Stephen Fry's bent nose.

[hazeltea.livejournal.com]

I used to have a crush on cartoon Roger when I was little lol

[wotwotleigh.livejournal.com]

My own mental images are still shifting. I developed a strong image of Bertie pretty early on, and a more vague one for Jeeves, based on the books. Since watching the show, my image of Jeeves has been almost completely supplanted by Stephen Fry. Although I adore Hugh Laurie and think he played the role of Bertie to perfection, my old mental image of Bertie is still basically in place.

One thing that's both frustrating and wonderful about Wodehouse's writing is how vague he is with the descriptions of his protagonists. He's generally more specific with secondary characters.

All Wodehouse says about Bertie is that he is slender and elegant. I have a vague memory of a mention of blue eyes somewhere, but I haven't come across it during my recent re-reading. I always got the sense that he was reasonably good looking. I picture one of those boyishly handsome fellows with the big eyes and round chins that were so in vogue in the 1920s, sort of a Buddy Rogers (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_iNLtcc6dW9Q/TH2nZAwKQaI/AAAAAAAAFKM/C04gIiVHeXk/s1600/Buddy+Rogers+042832.jpg) type (although not quite that pretty, and not that dark-haired).

Back before I saw the show, I always pictured Jeeves being considerably older than Bertie. Having re-read most of the books and a handful of the short stories in the past few months, I really don't see any evidence for a great age difference, although Bertie does sometimes compare Jeeves to a "father" or some other quasi-parental figure. I still picture Jeeves being a bit older, maybe by 10 years or a little more. He's described as "dark" (I assume that refers to dark hair and eyes, but maybe he had a swarthy complexion as well), with "finely chiseled features", so I do get the impression of a man who is fairly handsome, or at least distinguished-looking. There's no hint of him being as big as Stephen Fry, but I kind of like that -- Stephen Fry's Jeeves gives you the sense that he could beat the crap out of anyone who tried to cross him (although he would only do so as a last resort).

[ironicbees.livejournal.com]

Why didn't your comment show up on the post? I only saw it in my e-mail notifications. :(

Anyway, Chuffy mentions Bertie's blue eyes when they're trying to convince Bertie to take Sir Roderick's place in the potting shed. It's in "Thank You, Jeeves" ch.21.

Bertie does compare Jeeves to a father, but he also compares him to an uncle, a mother, a nannie, and a wife. :D

[burntcopper.livejournal.com]

very much like Hugh, actually. Crossed a little bit with a young Ben Daniels and Jonny Lee Miller and the bloke from all the shirt ads from the 20s and 30s that someone put up a while back - the one that was the boyfriend of the artist? I grew up on the various watercolour images of the Penguin editions, and none of them ever looked anything like my mental image of Bertie. For a start, most of them were distinctly chubby. Then I saw the images of Hugh-as-Bertie and went 'Yes! thankyou!'

OTOH, mental Jeeves looks very little like Stephen Fry except from a few expressions.

[ironicbees.livejournal.com]

I have no idea who those two men are but I googled them, and I can see why you picture Bertie as looking a bit like them. The shirt ads were by J. C. Leyendecker (http://www.americanartarchives.com/leyendecker,jc.htm).

Despite my no longer picturing Hugh as Bertie, he still influences my drawing. I can't seem to avoid it!

[triedunture.livejournal.com]

I think I once said my mental Jeeves is pretty much your Jeeves, or getting closer to it all the time. He gets leaner and less broad and is closely approaching your sketches. Bertie, like you said, shifts a lot. I think of him as pretty tall and a little gawky, with blond hair and pale skin. I think he has a prominent nose, or thinks he does at least, and a small forehead probably. People who think they have big noses often have small foreheads.

But other than that he's very fuzzy to me.

[ironicbees.livejournal.com]

Huh, I didn't know that about the big-nosed. My dad has a prominent nose but his forehead's pretty average. Same with me. Although I guess now I think about it, many of the prominent-nosed men I've come across in my photo searches have had comparatively small foreheads. I'll have to pay more attention to this trend.

My Bertie was fuzzy, then he got clear, and now he's really fuzzy again. :( I wish Wodehouse had been just a tiny bit more forthcoming with details about his appearance!

Bunny!

[krisreinke.livejournal.com]

I love the nekid Bertie and Jeeves ( esp. the bowler - because some things just can not be cast off.)

But! The pictures inspired a bunny! :-) Even in the 1920's England ( and the US - both LA and NY) had 'naturalist' resorts.
So some friend of Bertie's (I'd suggest Rocky T) invites Bertie for a stay in the country - at a naturalist resort - and of course Jeeves has to come along as Berties valet. And, of course, obey the resort rules!
Leaving the question of... what does a valet do to dress a naked gentleman?

Re: Bunny!

[gini-baggins.livejournal.com]

Hah, brilliant! I would love to see that written into a fic!! :D

[muuskanuikkunen.livejournal.com]

Oh, lovely! I really like the poses and golfing Bertie is absolutely darling :D

My Bertie tends to change his appearance quite a bit. At the moment I see him as a bit awkward, tall and thin man who has a slighlty buck teeth and floppy hair. Oh, and he also has a nose that bears a resemblance to those Who-people in How the Grinch Stole Christmas. (Does that last sentence make any sense? I'm not sure.)

Jeeves is more set in my mind. He's tall, dark-haired and has grey eyes. He's more sturdy than Bertie, but not too much. His face has clear cut features, and a lightly bent nose.

When I read Wodehouse I don't see Fry and Laurie at all. I always imagine Bertie and Jeeves (+ other characters) as cartoon characters. :')

[ironicbees.livejournal.com]

Thank you!

I'd wondered if I was the only one who sees cartoon characters when they read. Guess not! Actually it's mainly just Bertie I see that way. I can picture everyone else as real people easily enough, but Bertie often looks a lot like my drawings of him, if done by a top quality animation studio. But more realistic.

[detective-wolf.livejournal.com]

I love your art, so much. So inspiring *_*! *grabby hands*

My Bertie used to be very much like Hugh Laurie in the beginning, but now he's morphed into something else entirely. He's got brown hair, that is a warm tint of brown which isn't too light but not too dark either, he's got blue eyes and a jutting sharpish nose. I never draw Bertie particularly tall, but I do draw him lanky. I don't know where his height has gone to, it just disappeared with time. I love dressing him in brown clothes and a blue tie. He's got an adorable, bit lost expression, dopey, you know? But he's got a large and kind smile, which gives away a cute innocence that I see when I read Wodehouse.

My Jeeves is a big chap, very much like Stephen Fry, but he's become a bit leaner during my fanarting years. To contrast Bertie, he's not lanky, he's just a wardrobe dressed in a valeting suit. He's got semi thick eyebrows and dark eyes. Hair is black, like usual. I have noticed, that I very often draw Jeeves with an incredibly stern expression, now that I have read the 15 yearly stories of Jeeves, it is not that surprising, Jeeves was very specific on his words and what he demanded of Bertie in some of those stories. And Bertie gave in. My Jeeves can also be pretty intimidating, I guess, which is probably all kinds of wrong, he's not supposed to be even 'visible' when in the same room as the characters, yet he usually looks like someone kicked his puppy (Bertie).

[ironicbees.livejournal.com]

Thank you!

He's got an adorable, bit lost expression, dopey, you know?

I do. :D Yeah, mine has that sweet, dopey expression, too. Although he can look serious and sophisticated when he wants to. My Bertie also has a moderately "English" face, although it's hard to describe what I mean. I guess kind of like the royal family? You know, that kind of pale, rosy cheeked, wholesome sort of recognizably English face. It's definitely not something I've been able to convey in my drawings so far, though.

[lady529.livejournal.com]

I keep trying to decide which one is my favourite, and I just can't choose. Jeeves and his surreptitiously placed big bowler hat, or Bertie's cute ickle bum <3

Also, golfing Bertie is wicked. You nailed the posture and the draping of his clothes and everything is just fab.

The Lady 529

[ironicbees.livejournal.com]

Thank you! I must admit, though, that I only got his posture right because I used a photo reference, otherwise I'd probably have completely botched it. :D

[emeraldreeve.livejournal.com]

I love these especially the sexy Jeeves! They are all great! I so love your art!

I'll discuss how I see them in my next email to you. :)

[ironicbees.livejournal.com]

Thank you! And I'm looking forward to reading your thoughts. :)