ext_1888: Crichton looking thoughtful and a little awed. (gay empire by jackshoegazer)
[identity profile] wemblee.livejournal.com
What-ho, folks whom I ask lots of questions of as of late. (So glad this comm is still around. It's been what, ten years? Good times. God, I'm old.)

So, I don't know much about the British class system, or the British class system in the late-1800s-1920s, or about that time period in general -- you get the picture.

My question: is there anything -- his accent, vocabulary, I have no idea -- that marks Jeeves as belonging to a different class than Bertie (and to a different class than servants below him on the hierarchy)? Are there "tells" that would be obvious to someone who grew up in that society?
ext_1888: Crichton looking thoughtful and a little awed. (clementine red by saori1f)
[identity profile] wemblee.livejournal.com
All right, now that LJ's pretty much dead, I hate to be that person clogging up the community, but: I realize we have a fair number of fanfic writers here. Any tips for getting better at writing Bertie's POV? (Besides "read the canon," which, obviously.) It's really difficult. I like that it's difficult, but... it's difficult. There's a rhythm to it that you can get a handle on with enough exposure, but that's only one of the many ingredients, you know?

Someone on FFA came up with a great cheat sheet: http://fail-fandomanon.dreamwidth.org/224200.html?thread=1245701320#cmt1245701320

...but I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask here as well. I mean, it doesn't help that Wodehouse was a genius, was making up a fair bit of the slang (or so I heard), and that there are constant allusions to books I've never read (the Bible is really dry, okay?).

One pattern is that he's more expansive in his narrative voice but more clipped in his dialogue. If you have any observations that helped you as you wrote, feel free to share!

Question

Sep. 1st, 2012 12:47 am
[identity profile] jestana.livejournal.com

I'm writing a story set between the two World Wars. Two of the main characters are a wealthy young lady and her maid. They're traveling on an ocean liner from England to America, like Bertie and Jeeves did. Would they have shared quarters, or berthed separately? Any advice would be welcome.

Posted via LiveJournal app for iPhone.

[identity profile] ladymoondancer.livejournal.com
Hey guys, since Bertie spent a lot of time in New York and since slash is a glorious thing, I am tossing in an unreserved recommendation for the book Gay New York by George Chauncey to anyone interested in what the gay scene would've been like in the 1920s and 1930s (which is, happily, the era the book spends the most time on).

Here's a link to it on Amazon: Gay New York by Chauncey.

It's about 470 pages long, so you really get your money worth. (Price is between $8 and $16 depending on if you go for new or used.)

Before reading it, I had a vague idea that anyone who was gay before Stonewall had to live in secrecy and fear. I was wrong. Totally wrong. I was floored to find an era where gay men would carry around things like this:



More historical images and info under the cut )

I guarantee that your mind will be RIFE with plot bunnies after reading this book, not to mention it is fascinating from a historical perspective in its own right. The way ideas of masculinity have changed since then (when an average joe could sleep with a fairy (an effeminate man) and not be considered gay because fairies were kind of like girls, right? so it was like sleeping with a woman, really.), the surprisingly huge and visible drag balls and other society events, the way privacy was forced into public spaces (because so many gay men lived in community housing like boarding houses), and the one gay man who kept a diary about how he would befriend and then sleep with policemen on a regular basis.

On the Wodehousian side of things, I could see Jeeves being quite shaken if Bertie started making friends with anyone remotely campy . . . If Jeeves shies back from Bingo Little's dreadful horseshoe tie, I can't imagine what he would think if Bertie decided to compete in a drag ball. (Bertie does enjoy fancy dress, after all.)

Or would he perhaps view this as just another challenge and insist that Bertie be attired ABSOLUTELY PERFECTLY so he will WIN that ruddy contest?

Feel free to fire away any questions at me, although I don't know anything more than anyone else who read the book. :)

Edit: Just added some quotes from the book.

Fabulous Princess Toto! )
[identity profile] trista-zevkia.livejournal.com
Have you seen these?
An enterprising person could go through and write a story just using these! Nudge, nudge, wink, wink.

Formal Notice )
[identity profile] bratty-jedi.livejournal.com
Howdy, y'all.

Not a very Wodehouseian greeting, I know, but that's the way we roll in my neck of the woods. I'm a recent convert to the loveliness that is the general Jeevesian universe. I've seen the Fry & Laurie TV version and am working my way through the short stories and some fanfic. Perhaps someday I'll get through the entire canon and feel a need to write some fic of my own. In the meantime, I thought I'd say "Hello" and drop off a couple of links that might be of interest to the comm.

First is a new one that could be useful for background info for writers and perhaps artists. An Op-Ed from the recent New York Times Sunday Review discusses hand signals used by owners and staff of upscale restaurants to communicate silently. I rather suspect that many large manor houses of the type Bertie frequently visits with Jeeves in tow would have had similar means of communication in use by the staff. Even if the examples here aren't perfect due to imperfect era and setting, I thought they might provide food for thought.
Sign Dining

The second link is to an older piece that might have already been discussed here, in which case I apologize for the repeat, but my searching hasn't turned up anything. If anyone is familiar with the comic book series (or the movie) The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen or with H. P. Lovecraft's tales of Cthulhu, there was a text-only story in an issue of the comic that blends the League and Cthulhu with Jeeves and Bertie's world that is absolutely fantastic. The rest of the explanation with details for those unfamiliar with The League and / or Lovecraft is a bit complicated, so what say I hide it behind this cut. )

I love this little story, but I realize that on the Venn diagram of fans of Jeeves and Wooster, fans of Lovecraft, and fans of The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, the point of overlap for all three is going to be relatively small. For anyone else who happens to be at that intersection point or crazy enough to give something totally random a try, a complete scan of the story:
What Ho, Gods of the Abyss OMG I love that title!
[identity profile] erynn999.livejournal.com
In response to [livejournal.com profile] angieveep's inquiry about jazz age slang, yesterday I picked up a copy of Eric Partridge's Slang: To-day and Yesterday at a used bookshop. It was originally written about 1930 and revised again shortly after WW2 (1950 apparently). It has several mentions of Wodehouse specifically, and some glossaries of slang from various periods. It's very genteel, given the period in which it was written, but it would be a great resource.

The link above is for ABEbooks and they have a bunch of copies starting at less than $4. Siff up your slang! :D
[identity profile] bnmc2005.livejournal.com
Just thought I'd pass this along.

Earlier today the U.S. Library of Congress unveiled a project called "the National Jukebox." Now you can hear some of the rare audio recordings at the Library online. 

I know this is located in the U.S. but it might be a good research tool for anyone looking to write about Bertie and Jeeves whooping it up at some of the clubs in NYC or something.  You can search by date, name, genre  etc.

http://www.loc.gov/jukebox


 
[identity profile] erynn999.livejournal.com
We've had some discussions of this in the comm before. I was fortunate enough to pick up a copy of Wooster Proposes, Jeeves Disposes this week and the author handles this information in a footnote. I'm posting it here for folks to consider if they ever need the information in their stories.

p. 365-366, f 9.:

"Data on servants' wages during the 1920s are difficult to find in secondary sources. A sampling of London Times want ads for valets in early 1929, however, shows their annual wages falling in this £65-to-£80 range (not counting room and board). For example, a "general manservant" asking £65 described himself wanting a position in London doing the "entire duties of one gentleman"; he could cook, drive a car, and speak French (The Times [4 Mar. 1929]: 3). Butlers and butler-valets received more, in the £80-to-£100 range. An agency supplying footmen, butlers, and valets listed the wage range as £35 to £100 (The Times [19 Mar. 1929]: 4). Even assuming Bertie had to pay Jeeves double the highest valet's rate (i.e. £200) to keep him from his friends' clutches, he would still only make around £4 a week. (In Sayers' Whose Body? [1923], Wimsey reveals that he pays Bunter £200 a year, implying that this is unusually high because Bunter assists him in his hobby of detection.) Thus £95 received in a period of two weeks would be a very substantial sum, with even the £5 to £20 Jeeves customarily gets being far from negligible."

ETA: Somebody in comments noted that tipping of staff (in clothing, for example) was common. The author quotes Bertie in Stiff Upper Lip, Jeeves as saying: "My heart melted. I ceased to think of self. It had just occurred to me that in the circumstances, I would be unable to conclude my visit by tipping Butterfield. The hat would fill that gap."
[identity profile] erynn999.livejournal.com
I happened across a thesis titled LIMINAL BUTLERS: DISCUSSING A COMIC STEREOTYPE AND THE PROGRESSION OF CLASS DISTINCTIONS IN AMERICA (the title is all caps and I just did a cut and paste; this is a PDF file), which features a fairly significant section on Jeeves, as one might expect. It's a rather interesting read about the space occupied by butlers and valets in Victorian and later British society, and how those things have been reflected in American media. Definitely food for thought.
[identity profile] ironicbees.livejournal.com
I've completed my notes for the novels, and I decided to put it up in one whole file instead of splitting it in two as originally planned. Since Google docs was such a bitch to work with, I made a pdf instead. All the notes - novels, short stories, chronology - can be downloaded in a zip file here. I tidied up all the files and added footnotes, and corrected a few errors here and there.

Now I can finally get back to doing more art!
[identity profile] ironicbees.livejournal.com
*wipes sweat from brow* *curses Google docs*

Okay, so here are my notes for the short stories, and a rough chronology.

Read more )

Are there any other sites/services like Google docs that allows you to publish docs online and share them privately, but that aren't so damn hard to use? After the trouble I had getting this prepared, I'm not looking forward to formatting what looks to be another 150+ pages in Google. >:(


ETA: I'm going to go ahead and unlock this for now. Hopefully all the quotes from the books don't exceed some legal limit. I'll probably lock it again in a week or two to be safe.
[identity profile] heretherebefic.livejournal.com
Hullo! I'm working on a fic, and I've come up against a question that has me stymied. I'm not even sure where to look for an answer.

What would the average size of a guest room be during Bertie's time? I'm trying to have him say something along the lines of "this particular X by X" in reference to a room. Not terribly important, but I don't want to get it completely off the mark.

Any help is appreciated. :)
[identity profile] bnmc2005.livejournal.com


I stumbled across an interesting website today that chronicles food. I thought of this community because it has a whole section on the  1920s.  Next time you're writing about Jeeves and Bertie  out on the town, "strapping on the food bag" you might be able to use this as a resource to see what might have been on the menu over at the Drones.

http://www.foodtimeline.org/fooddecades.html#1920s There is also rather fascinating to see an overall food time line of the world here as well.
[identity profile] lilyv687.livejournal.com

A fanfic generator. I put certain adjectives in, and here’s what it came up with. Sure, some of it doesn’t make too much sense, but that doesn’t matter. Enjoy!

 

Go HERE to make your own generated fics!

The Dove Prince

Jeeves was walking through a creamy meadow, laughing at the butterflies flitting around his head when he spied a sticky little dove lying under a tree.

Jeeves skipped over to see the dear thing and was gorgeous to find that he was hurt! A b. and s. had sliced his delicious little leg and he whimpered sensually with the pain.

"My hot little friend," Jeeves said. "Let me help you!" He took out his Leatherman Multi-Purpose tool and pulled out the b. and s., as hoarsely as he could. The dove cried out and Jeeves's heart ached, like the woolliest baa-lamb that ever stepped. "You'll be all right," Jeeves whispered. "I'll take care of you. I'll call you Bertie and you can live with me forever!"

Scooping Bertie up in his arms, Jeeves carried him home and made a bed for him beside his own. For seven days and seven nights, Jeeves nursed Bertie, cleaning his leg and feeding him Tie-brand dove chow.

On the eighth night, Bertie climbed into bed with Jeeves. He burrowed under the covers and dirtily licked Jeeves's lips. It made Jeeves giggle and he cuddled close to Bertie, stroking his arm and singing slowly to him.

They continued that way for a long time. Every day, Jeeves hurried home so he could curl up with Bertie. It gave him a gooey feeling whenever Bertie licked his lips.

Then one night, Bertie looked up at Jeeves and said, "If you kiss me, I will become a lovely prince."

Jeeves screamed spine-tinglingly, he was so surprised. How could a dove talk? He must have dropped off and dreamed it.

"You're not dreaming," Bertie said. "Kiss me."

"Don't tell anyone I screamed like that," Jeeves said and kissed Bertie on his arm. The air swirled and suddenly, there stood a lovely prince! With a crown and everything!

"I'm Prince Bertie," he said. "I was cursed. It's a long story."

"Is it really you?" Jeeves said.

"See?" Bertie said and showed Jeeves the scar from the b. and s. on his leg. Then he kissed Jeeves and they tumbled in the water and did a lot of very fluffy things, some of them involving a sexy restorative.

"I love you," Bertie said when they were done. Jeeves clasped him close and they lived together happily ever after on all the prince treasure Bertie had stashed away.

And if Bertie didn't know about Jeeves's visits to the dove sanctuary, well, it wouldn't hurt him.”

[identity profile] juliacarmen.livejournal.com
Jeeves has some missing relatives. Is anyone missing from Bertie's list?

The Woosters )
[identity profile] juliacarmen.livejournal.com
A few days ago [livejournal.com profile] foofarah  asked me about the Wooster family tree. The good ol' Jaggard and Ring ref. book does have a couple of lists titled "It's All Relative -- Jeeves" and "It's All Relative -- Wooster". I've typed up Jeeves's, his being the shortest list, and I'll type up Bertie's tomorrow.

I think a cousin might have been left out of Jeeves's list of relatives. Didn't he have a jeweler cousin who taught him the difference between real pearls and cultured ones?
Queenie was also left out! Wasn't she Uncle Charlie's daughter, ergo Jeeves's cousin?

The Jeeveses )
[identity profile] erynn999.livejournal.com
Yes, I'm up at an ungodly hour, surfing for stuff, and I've found a few useful writery links for folks.

First off, a floor plan for Bertie's flat from the TV show. If you wanted to use the Fry and Laurie show as canon, here's an excellent place for plotting character movement -- chairs to trip over, closets to hide in, and all. The only thing this is lacking is Jeeves's Lair. One wonders if he doesn't simply dematerialize briefly while Bertie is asleep. Of course, there's a small space down at the bottom right corner behind the kitchen that probably leads to a pocket dimension where Jeeves actually lives. There is accompanying discussion of the layout (and the lack of Jeevesian abode) here. None of the discussants actually comes out and suggests that Jeeves sleeps with Bertie, more's the pity.

graphic under the cut if the link doesn't work for you )

Although it's written for female domestic servants, The Up-to-Date Waitress was written about 1920 for a domestic servant who would have to take care of most of the stuff Jeeves has to do for Bertie. Some of this stuff is pretty bizarre and makes you wonder how the hell anyone ever had time to breathe. We do know, after all, that Jeeves does pretty much all of Bertie's food service and takes care of the kitchen and whatnot.

And if you want to know where all the canon locations in Wodehouse are, here's a Wiki list that explains who lives where and something about the places for your edification.
[identity profile] juliacarmen.livejournal.com
I've just transcribed some entries from the "Wodehouse in Woostershire" encyclopedia (or "concordance," as they call it) by Tony Ring and Geoffrey Jaggard. It was in response to a tweet from [livejournal.com profile] storyfan  about whether it was Uncle George or Uncle Henry who kept rabbits in his bedroom. [livejournal.com profile] storyfan  thought y'all might be interested in these entries.
The post contains two essays speculating about whether Bertie had two Uncle Georges and two Uncle Henrys; and the encyclopedic entries for Claude, Eustace, Emily and Harold Wooster. They can be found over at my LJ.

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