tips for writing in Bertie's POV?

[wemblee.livejournal.com]

All right, now that LJ's pretty much dead, I hate to be that person clogging up the community, but: I realize we have a fair number of fanfic writers here. Any tips for getting better at writing Bertie's POV? (Besides "read the canon," which, obviously.) It's really difficult. I like that it's difficult, but... it's difficult. There's a rhythm to it that you can get a handle on with enough exposure, but that's only one of the many ingredients, you know?

Someone on FFA came up with a great cheat sheet: http://fail-fandomanon.dreamwidth.org/224200.html?thread=1245701320#cmt1245701320

...but I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask here as well. I mean, it doesn't help that Wodehouse was a genius, was making up a fair bit of the slang (or so I heard), and that there are constant allusions to books I've never read (the Bible is really dry, okay?).

One pattern is that he's more expansive in his narrative voice but more clipped in his dialogue. If you have any observations that helped you as you wrote, feel free to share!

Comments

[wotwotleigh.livejournal.com]

As possibly the person who made that cheat sheet *whistles innocently*, I've been thinking about this a fair bit. It's really hard to articulate what makes Bertie sound like Bertie, but I guess I can offer a few more random thoughts and suggestions, some general and some specific:

1) It can be useful to write down generally what you want to say in a sketchy approximation of the Bertie voice, and then gradually massage it into something more Bertie-esque. Ex.:

"I heaved a weary sigh and rose. There was no point in putting the thing off." => "I heaved the corpus out of the chair with a weary s. There was no point in delaying the inevitable. My general feeling was that if it were smacked into when 'tis smacked into, then 'tis well 'twere smacked into quickly."

2) I cheat a lot with the literary allusions. A few things help:

-There are certain quotes that show up over and over and certain sources that Bertie tends to draw from all the time (particularly Shakespeare and the Bible). Just like with Bertie's distinctive jargon, it helps to make note, while you're reading, of specific quotes and references he uses a lot.

-https://en.m.wikiquote.org is great for finding quotes to play around with, because you can search by source, author or subject (e.g. quotes about sleep, love, etc.).

-When Bertie does use literary allusions, they are often (but not always) garbled or Bertiefied in some way. Sometimes they're half-remembered, other times he deliberately plays around with them, replacing key words with slangy synonyms, etc.

Sometimes he'll remember only one or two words of something, and Jeeves will still recognize what he's after. ("Who was the chap who said 'Tum te tum te something brow, something something something thou'?" "You are referring to the poet Scott, sir" etc.)

3) Part of what makes Bertie's style distinctive is the use of contrasting juxtapositions: highfalutin language mixed with slang; British lingo mixed with American; occasional lines in some other language (esp. French) with random English thrown in.

4) Outlandish imagery is a big thing. I was just reading the first chapter of Code of the Woosters, and noted his description of (paraphrasing here) fetching his eyeballs and putting them back in their sockets after finishing one of Jeeves's pick-me-ups.

5) He likes gags playing off narrative voice against dialogue, if that makes sense. Things like:

"'I say!' I said."

Or:

"I saw all. 'Jeeves,' I said, 'I see all.'"

6) He frequently addresses the reader. This is a good device for filling in background details from earlier stories. "If you have read any of my other memoirs, you may remember the sinister affair of Gussie and the notebook..." and so on.

I like your observation about the difference between his narrative voice and his spoken dialogue. I think this is something that develops more in the novels, whereas in the earlier stories his narration is less eloquent and more similar to the way he speaks.

[wemblee.livejournal.com]

Oh, wow, I possibly owe possibly you a debt of possible gratitude, thank you! And thanks for these extra observations as well.

It can be useful to write down generally what you want to say in a sketchy approximation of the Bertie voice

Haha, before I saw your comment, I was about to edit/self-reply with this exact suggestion! With other characters, I can kind of just bang it out (insert juvenile snickering here), but for me, Bertie sort of requires a few passes in order to get it right, so having a firm idea what I want to convey beforehand is helpful.

I think this is something that develops more in the novels, whereas in the earlier stories his narration is less eloquent and more similar to the way he speaks.

Yeah, I noticed that as well.

[okapi1895.livejournal.com]

This is all fabulous. I wish I had these tips a few weeks ago. I've only written 2 short fics, but I really appreciate #5 on the cheat sheet (i.e., he lit a moody cigarette) because I hadn't even noticed it, but of course it's spot on.

I start off my cutting and pasting from the stories (like the quote about the lark and the snail that appears a lot; or the English bulldog reference which he uses for himself and Bingo and others) but then the real challenge is when you put Bertie in a novel situation (and isn't that what fanfic is for?!) and ask yourself, how would Bertie say X or how would he describe Y, when it's something that's not appeared in canon and you can't find a good parallel.

And the crazy plots. Hats off to anyone who attempts to write a new one.

[wotwotleigh.livejournal.com]

Even Wodehouse struggled with those plots! I recently read part of P. G. Wodehouse: A Life in Letters, and he was constantly asking his friends (writer or otherwise) for plot ideas. He wrote a letter to a friend shortly after getting married and was all excited because his new wife had "already come across with several good plots."

If all else fails, there's always the MacGuffin. There are endless comedic (or dramatic) possibilities around people losing, finding, seeking, stealing or concealing some silly object. Wodehouse fell back on that a lot (see the cow creamer, Gussie's notebook, various necklaces...).

[okapi1895.livejournal.com]

Good point about the MacGuffin. I've only read one excerpt of A Life in Letters, but was shocked to learn that the inspiration for the fireplace with 'Two Lovers Built This Nest' was none other than H.G. Wells! Truth meet fiction.

I've always been struck by that line of Bertie's where he says he wants to name his first-born Green Swizzle after the cocktail he has (at the fair, I think). If I had the chops I would do a cracky bit of omegaverse where he and Jeeves actually have a child and name it Green Swizzle Wooster-Jeeves.

[wotwotleigh.livejournal.com]

Yes, he drew from real life a lot! I think that's part of what makes it so good. The situations are incredibly silly, but still so relatable.

Ahaha, I forgot about Green Swizzle! Doooo eeeet. (I can totally imagine Jeeves being highly disapproving of the name, but finally compromising with some extremely stodgy middle name to make up for it. Either that or he just makes Bertie burn half his wardrobe.)

[godsdaisiechain.livejournal.com]

He himself was named after a horse, so it's fitting, IMHO

[wemblee.livejournal.com]

Even Wodehouse struggled with those plots! I recently read part of P. G. Wodehouse: A Life in Letters, and he was constantly asking his friends (writer or otherwise) for plot ideas.

I'll need to keep this in mind during the many times I'm struggling to come up with an idea and feeling guilty about leaning on my friends.

[godsdaisiechain.livejournal.com]

That's a great point! One thing that helped me was having read a ton of other material that was period-appropriate for Bertie and Jeeves.

My observation about the plots is that the Jeeves stories basically have three themes:

- Bertie is in a love triangle
- Bertie helps a friend in need
- An Aunt makes Berties' life unpleasant

The themes can occur alone or in combination.

The plot is usually fairly standard:
- Bad thing happens
- (optional) Bertie and Jeeves have a tiff
- Bertie refuses to listen to sound advice. Things, dogs, and/or people spiral out of control.
- Jeeves comes to the rescue at the last minute plus gives Bertie reviving beverages and/or throws out his clothes

[storyfan.livejournal.com]

I've written a fair few Jooster fics, and I can't say I've come even close to mastering the Bertie voice. It's a hard voice to capture, especially if you're trying to do some serious material.

The one thing I'd warn against is going overboard on the Bertie-isms. Some writers, in an effort to capture this most difficult voice/narrative, substitute too many words with a single letter. For example:

Jeeves oiled into the young master's room with cup of fresh c., along with a welcome plate of e. and b., sweetened with a dab of j. for the t.

Wodehouse does this quite often, but we always understand what he means. I once wrote a piece of narrative with four word substitutions. My beta sent the story back to me with a well-deserved "fix it! I have no idea what you're talking about."

Also, there's nothing wrong with re-using a few of Wodehouse's charming little word twists. After all, we're writing fan fiction, and that allows us some license.

From one old egg to another,

Storyfan

[godsdaisiechain.livejournal.com]

I think you catch the Bertie voice simply charmingly, old bean

[godsdaisiechain.livejournal.com]

I agree with all the advice here....

I've written a fair few Jooster fics, and I'd read a fair chunk not just of the Jeeves canon but also the Blandings and Psmith canons (and some of the other Drones) stories before I started writing. I also tend to write stories that fall into some Wodehouse "period" or allude to a specific work and/or episode of the show.

I also keep a few things in mind about Bertie:

- He is really well educated. When he reports that he's a bit of a prat, he's writing in the context of someone who went to Eton and then Oxford. So half of his "whatsits" refer to things like "semiotics" or "postprandial jocundity."

-He's very athletic. He played tennis _for the nation_. So when he complains about having trouble golfing, it's in the same register as an Olympic athlete having trouble on Dancing with the Stars.

- He's competitive. He gets engaged to the most beautiful women, wants to win at practical jokes, and likes to be taken seriously about 'the home.'

- He spends time in cosmopolitan spaces, likes fun (like shows and horse races and paragliding) and is really interested in clothes. So his frame of reference includes those sorts of things-- if you don't know London or the British Countryside or the interior of Harrod's, do some internetting.

- His voice evolves over time. What we tend to think of as "the" Bertie voice is what Wodehouse started doing in the 1950's (as in, after 40 or so years of writing Bertie and Jeeves). So if you're uncomfortable, take a look at the _My Man Jeeves_ stories and see if that works better. That early voice is easier to replicate.

Hope that helps.

[wemblee.livejournal.com]

He played tennis _for the nation_.

Oh, wow, I totally missed this. Where does this reference appear?

That early voice is easier to replicate.

I definitely noticed that, the stark difference between Very Early Bertie and Late Period Bertie* and how much easier the early voice was. I thought to myself, "Should I...? No, that's cheating. But should I...?"

*aka pregnant Bertie

[godsdaisiechain.livejournal.com]

I don't remember exactly where the reference is to playing tennis for the nation.... but it is there somewhere in one of the longer books. The next time I come across it, I'll come back and write it down for you.

My thought is why shouldn't you work with whichever voice works best for what you're doing.

[wemblee.livejournal.com]

Thank you!

My thought is why shouldn't you work with whichever voice works best for what you're doing.

Oh, no, you're right, and I realize now what I said also seems dismissive of other people's choices, which is really not okay. And in the end, I did as you said, which was going with sort of a mix of the two styles.

[godsdaisiechain.livejournal.com]

You're not being dismissive.... it feels more like you're afraid of "cheating"

Did you post the work?

[wemblee.livejournal.com]

I didn't post it, because it's drawerfic -- and I realize, "Why ask the comm for advice for drawerfic?" -- but I figure that other people might be interested in advice as well, I can use the advice going forward if I decide to write something intended for wider consumption, etc. It's a challenging voice to write in, but it's a fun challenge. I really appreciate your and everyone else's replies!

[godsdaisiechain.livejournal.com]

my turn to learn: what's drawerfic?

[wemblee.livejournal.com]

Fic that is not, for whatever reason, intended for public consumption -- the stuff you write and shove away in your drawer, I think is how the phrase came about. I wonder if the term is up on Fanlore? *checks* It is!

https://fanlore.org/wiki/Drawerfic

[godsdaisiechain.livejournal.com]

I suppose I should have drawered a few of mine, but I do obsessively post things....

Good to know the term, though. My new word for the month.