A practical question about travel in late 20s/early 30s

[closetofheroes.livejournal.com]

I'm writing a fic (a sequel, actually), in which Bertie and Jeeves travel from Brinkley Court to the South of France. This leads to questions, which I hope someone in this lovely fluffy community can help me out with, even if it's only a guess.

1. How long would it take to travel from A to B in that pre-Channel Tunnel era?

2. Would they mostly travel by train, do you think?

3. If the journey is more than 12 hours, and they left in the afternoon/evening, would they stop overnight somewhere on the way, or would they sleep on the train? Did they run night trains in France, then? Is it likely there'd be a train leaving in the late afternoon for that destination?

4. Was there a train that went straight from Calais or Boulogne in North France all the way to the south?

You get my basic idea, I think. What are your thoughts? Anyone know much about 1920s travel?

Thanks very much for any help you can give.

Comments

[sunsetsinthewes.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure about any of the answers for this, but you might find little_details to be a big help. They're great with this sort of thing.

[waqaychay.livejournal.com]

i was just going to suggest that. *lol*

[closetofheroes.livejournal.com]

Thanks! I'll definitely check it out. It's hard to find information like this through an ordinary google search.

[closetofheroes.livejournal.com]

I love little details! It's just like this forum only it covers everything! Will definitely be using it a LOT in future!

[sunsetsinthewes.livejournal.com]

Glad to help-- I hope they could answer your question.

[laughinggas13.livejournal.com]

They could certainly get a steamship across the channel. I recall reading somewhere that even in Victorian times, such a crossing was pretty much as fast as it is today.

I'd say to get to the South of France would take rather longer than 12 hours, even by a fast train 'cos when I drive to the Alps, it takes me 10 hours even on modern motorways and everything. I'm sure there'd be sleeper trains, though I wouldn;t know of any specific trains.

sunsetinthewes I love you for posting that link! I was going to make a post on here asking if anyone knew of just such a community, so I'll be rushing off to check that out.

[sunsetsinthewes.livejournal.com]

You're welcome. It's a huge help for those bizarre or outdated things you just can't google.

[closetofheroes.livejournal.com]

Hm. Yes, I assumed there'd be a ferry of some kind. I can't remember how long it takes - an hour? Maybe less? I'll have to check with the P&O website. I didn't know that they were the same speed back then, so that's good to know.

Anyone remember Hovercrafts? They cut the journey time down a lot - but since the Chunnel appeared I think they got shelved.

Now you mention how long it takes today to get from none end of France to the other, I do remember the journeys I took there being about that long. (When I took trains over Europe one summer, I used to spend the day in one city then spend the night on a train to the next place, to save on lodging costs.) I recall travelling from Nice in the late afternoon all the way to Calais, and I think it was - I don't know - 8 or 9 hours? Seemed really quick because it was overnight. But of course that was a modern fast train.

So, thank for the reminder. I think you're right, it's a pretty long journey even today.

[laughinggas13.livejournal.com]

Slightly over an hour for the ferry, I think. I'm off to the site of my 'World Tour' story next week and I intend to exploit (with the aid of a French dictionary) the local library for all I'm worth. Basically, by the time you've finished writing, I'll actually be able to answer your questions. :-)

[toyniffler.livejournal.com]

The most likely way for Bertie or anyone of his social class of doing this would be going by the Blue Train http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Train_Bleu

If not that fancy: Milktrain to London. Get to Kings Cross. From Kings Cross to Dover, steamer over the channel, land in Calais, get on a train to Gare du Nord.
Stop the night at some fancy hotel. Toddle about Paris. The next morning. take the southgoing express from Gare de Lyon to Marseille ( 8-9 hours) Voila!

[closetofheroes.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the link. That might be just what I'm looking for!

[closetofheroes.livejournal.com]

THat link about the Le Train Bleu is great. Even tells you what time it left Calais everyday.

I was trying to find out where a valet would sleep on the Blue Train. It looks like it was all First Class until the late 30s, so I suppose Jeeves would have the same type of accommodation as Bertie. In 'Murder on the Orient Express' I think Ratchett's valet slept in a nearby compartment.

I wonder what the trains were like between Worcester and Dover. Could they get from Worcester to Calais by 1pm if they left in the morning? More research!

[closetofheroes.livejournal.com]

Wow - thanks for all the details. I didn't know one could take a personal automobile across the channel in those days. I've experienced the modern P&O /SeaFrance Ferries, but I had a feeling they didn't have quite the same atmosphere as the ships of the 20s and 30s.

6 1/2 hours to Paris from London. Now, I sort of had in my mind the journey from Brinkley Court to London being about an hour and a half, but looking at a map and judging Brinkley C. to be about 5 miles south of Worcester, and Worcester being about 100 miles from London, I think it might have been a bit longer than that.

Bertie and Jeeves always talk about travelling so airily, something they can do at the drop of a hat (or at the drop of an aunt's battleaxe), and you sort of picture them arriving safely at Cannes or wherever by that same evening. But I suppose our perception of what is or isn't a convenient distance has changed as the technology of travel has developed. And if you had Jeeves to make all the arrangements and to lead you to the right railway platform, it must have been a cakewalk for Bertie, really.

THanks so much for the help.

[storyfan.livejournal.com]

Yet another excellent discussion topic. I've been wondering how long it will take Bertie and Jeeves to cross Lake Michigan to Mackinac Island for my Jooster Around the World contribution. I will also be using that link for research.

[wemblee.livejournal.com]

3. If the journey is more than 12 hours, and they left in the afternoon/evening, would they stop overnight somewhere on the way, or would they sleep on the train?

I wish more word problems on math tests involves Jeeves & Wooster. "If Bertie bicycles for ten miles to escape eleven aunts at a rate of..." /completely unhelpful comment

[closetofheroes.livejournal.com]

I think if a question was worded that way in a test, I'd just go off into a happy dream and ultimately fail!

[theficklepickle.livejournal.com]

You've all missed something rather delightful; it was in fact possible to catch a train in London and stay in the same compartment for the whole journey. The railway carriage was shunted complete onto the deck of the ferry, and then when it reached France the body was re-shunted onto a bogey with a suitable gauge for French railways. (This sort of gauge change happened a lot in the days of I.K. Brunel, when there was no uniform gauge in the UK, and it was still possible right up to the Second World War.) My memory is a bit vague on the subject but I think you may find it described in 'Murder on the Orient Express'.

I would think a journey time of at least 24 hours from London would be necessary, depending on the crossing and the number of stops in France. It would of course be incredibly expensive, but I'm sure that isn't a problem.

[closetofheroes.livejournal.com]

Really? Do you happen to know if this train had a name? I've tried to research this stuff but haven't got very far.

Would the train then go on to Paris - or even all the way to the South, by any chance?

This is so helpful, guys. Much appreciated.

[theficklepickle.livejournal.com]

My BH has just sent me the following information which appeared in a newspaper in 2002:

The Night Ferry was the pinnacle of boat train glamour. Instead of an arrow, Night Ferry locomotives had a crescent moon on the front. The outbound service left Victoria at about 9pm pulling a heady combination of Wagon Lits sleeping cars and Pullman dining cars, in which the plates were pale blue with crinkly edges.
In what seems in retrospect a fantastical, Jules Verne-like operation, Night Ferry carriages were placed directly on a Dunkirk-bound ferry by the raising or lowering of water in the dock at Dover Marine.

The Golden Arrow (which started services in 1929), only went as far as Dover where passengers took the ferry to Calais and joined the Fleche d'Or to travel onwards to Paris.

I think you're into the world of competing rail companies here and I don't know who operated the Night Ferry but there are hundreds of railway history websites where you could get the information. Try the (UK) National Railway Museum site as a portal, it's pretty comprehensive.

[theficklepickle.livejournal.com]

Sorry, the italics should close after 'Marine'.

[asperias.livejournal.com]

i think people went quite often the whole way by train. there were first class compartments that satisfied the first class travellers, so they didnt necessarily (i think) go by car:-)) they could eat well and sleep in the train i think. (see agatha christie :-)) )

[tourmaline1973.livejournal.com]

This is mostly further afield than France, but I thought it might be of interest here - Shipping adverts from The Times, 21st April 1930.

Here (http://pics.livejournal.com/tourmaline1973/pic/00038bka) (2.31MB)