Uhm, what?

[mxdp.livejournal.com]

I found, uh, two articles. I think. I don't know.


Jeeves? Bertie's father? (nothing but rot!) Who starts an article with that line? Gosh, I'm gonna have such nightmares tonight... *does Star Wars ripp-off* GgghBertieee I am youuur faaatheeer...*

Crying Jeeves when there is no Jeeves Has anyone, and I do mean anyone, read that book -- Wake up, Sir!? What was it like?

Ouf! Gotta go... Enjoy...

Comments

[count-to-seven.livejournal.com]

I work in a used book store and just ran across that last week - I started reading it and it is hilarious. You've reminded me to pick it back up again.

[mxdp.livejournal.com]

Good.^^ Let me know if you liked it?

[innocentsmith.livejournal.com]

Drat, I can't seem to get to the original op-ed article that letter is complaining about. I wanted to be horrified and contemptuous of the writer's Wodehouse knowledge! *sulks* Glad at least someone objected at the time. Seriously, what kind of sense does that make?

Wake Up, Sir wasn't really my cup of tea, though I thought it was well done for what it was doing. The problem for me was that I found the not-Bertie narrator character fundamentally unlikeable: he's self-absorbed and neurotic, too pleased with his own cleverness and too eager to tell you about his sexual issues/escapades. It's a character type - the neurotic East Coast literary guy - that I've never personally liked, and it seemed to me to drastically miss the whole point of Bertie as a personality. Also, I like Jeeves better when he's a flesh-and-blood person who just happens to be awesomely capable of fixing your life: I think that's more interesting. I ended up giving up on the book halfway in just because it was pissing me off so much.

This, however, should only be taken as my own reaction to it, as it depends on it having hit a few of my characterization squick buttons. YMMV. It is, at least, funny and intelligently constructed.

[castalianspring.livejournal.com]

Thanks for this review. I may have to give this one a miss. Bertie has always been my favorite, so seeing an unlikeable character in his place would probably curb any enjoyment I could have for such a book. The Bertie character has to be a nice guy, otherwise why would we care that Jeeves is helping him?

[innocentsmith.livejournal.com]

Well, I mean, possibly if that particular type of character doesn't irk you as much as it does me, it wouldn't be a problem. But he's definitely un-Bertie-like in a lot of ways. I sort of felt he was a self-insert for Ames.

I have a theory that a goodly number of the (non-fannish) people who read the Jooster books aren't really into the characters as characters, rather than as broad objects of parody performing the complexities of the plots. So they think, "Oh, I wish I had a Jeeves" - but not because they want specifically Reginald Jeeves, of the crazy family stories and fondness for fishing and boats: they want someone to bring them hangover remedies and sort out their love lives, because that's the point of his existence.

If you're looking at the stories in that light, then, it's easy enough to take Bertie as the viewpoint character and swap in yourself, while making some attempt at Bertie-voice, and if you're a half-decent writer it will be entertaining, because...well, Bertie-voice is always entertaining, as are the wacky musical-comedy-without-music plots. The problem is, if you get a reader who's attached to Bertie as Bertie, then you're automatically throwing your own personality into high relief in comparison to his. And the result may or may not be appealing. I can think of at least one pastiche where Bertie was kind of a loathsome little cad. And then there are the stories where Bertie stands in for the writer's dislike of the English upper classes as a whole...

< /thoughts on Jooster pro fic >

[castalianspring.livejournal.com]

Mm, I see what you mean. This is probably why I haven't enjoyed any of the non-Wodehouse attempts at a Jeeves novel thus far. None of them give me a Bertie character who is different enough from Bertie to be new and interesting but isn't a horribly unlikeable person.

I think if Plum had been writing his books as serious praise of the British class system, an anti-Bertie story would have more impact, but as the non-realistic fluff that they are...I don't know. In that case it comes across as a bit petty or something. What I'd like better is a serious attempt to place the characters as we know them into a more realistic setting of the time period, especially considering the various wars they would have lived through.

[innocentsmith.livejournal.com]

Wodehouse, like Jeeves himself, is kind of inimitable, but that doesn't stop people from trying.

Not that that's necessarily a bad thing.

I once contemplated doing an AU fic of Jeeves and Bertie in another time period, choosing the Regency because it struck me it had a lot of elements in common with the Roaring 20s (the last gasp before a renewed era of morality, big crazy parties, silly dandyish men, girls wearing shockingly revealing dresses and cutting their hair short, scandalous new dances, while everyone does their level best to ignore the very serious stuff going on in the world). And then I thought, hm, but the class differences would have been considerably sharper in that era - how to balance that? Hey, what if the Bertie-character is a girl posing as a guy? Happened a lot in Regency novels, and then that'd be extra fun for when Regency!girl!Bertie romantic tangles. But then how, realistically, would she be passing for male...?

...Somewhere around the point when I had come up with a whole complicated backstory for the characters with the Bertie-character being from a family of upper-class sorcerers, it occurred to me that, um, this really wasn't Jooster at all any more. So I just went with it as original fic. But...yeah.

if Plum had been writing his books as serious praise of the British class system

Yeah, but they're totally not. If anything, they're an extremely gentle and affectionate parody of said system: the upper classes are composed of silly idiots. And so sometimes, then, someone with a bone to pick takes the silly idiots angle as a critique, and pushes it without the same sense of affection and goodwill. I dunno either.

What I'd like better is a serious attempt to place the characters as we know them into a more realistic setting of the time period, especially considering the various wars they would have lived through.

*nods enthusiastically* Yep. Well, we can but do our best as fanwriters, I guess...

[castalianspring.livejournal.com]

Now see, I like that AU idea. The Regency period would be a lot of fun with these characters, as I could see them fitting into a sort of Austen-esque plot quite easily.

Yeah, but they're totally not. If anything, they're an extremely gentle and affectionate parody of said system: the upper classes are composed of silly idiots. And so sometimes, then, someone with a bone to pick takes the silly idiots angle as a critique, and pushes it without the same sense of affection and goodwill. I dunno either.

Exactly. That sense of affection is what makes it work for me.

I'm not a writer myself, so I just sit back and watch everyone else and then jump in on discussions and quietly do modding duties in the background. I do love how creative everyone here can be.

[dreamwaffles.livejournal.com]

See, this is my problem with pastiches. I haven't seen as many in the Wodehouse fandom as I have in Holmes, but I have to say that I am extremely wary of most Holmes pastiches. (If the narrator isn't Watson I tend to run a mile. Watson is my favorite. I read a Holmes/Phantom of the Opera crossover that is not The Canary Trainer in which the narrator was a medical doctor who'd been in the army, but wasn't Watson, instead being a blatant self-insert. This peeved me from the start and then he started bashing Watson, which was the last straw. You do not bash Watson in my presence. Or ever.)

This being said, can anyone recommend any good Jeeves and Wooster pastiches that aren't fic? I've read all the fic and love it, but more is always good. :D

[innocentsmith.livejournal.com]

I sort of liked the first couple Mary Russell novels, but Laurie R. King, while not bashing Watson, was obviously working on the movie-based interpretation of the good doctor as sweet, but rather dim. :P

J&W pastiches, hm. I always point people to the snippet at the bottom of this page (http://www.neilgaiman.com/p/Cool_Stuff/Short_Stories/I_Cthulhu), in which Neil Gaiman informs us of Wodehouse's collaborative efforts with H.P. Lovecraft. ^_^

Weirdly, there are a few crossovers of Jooster with the Lovecraftverse; there's a whole chapter in Alan Moore's The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: The Black Dossier that has the Elder Gods preying on Brinkley Court.

And somewhere out there there's a story that's got Aunt Agatha unleashing the Wild Hunt on Bertie, or something like that; buggered if I've been able to find it in years, though.

...oh, wait, hey, here we go. http://www.smart.net/~tak/Wodehouse/pgw_www.html Bottom middle of the page, there's a short list, though a lot of the links are dead. I've got to say, though, I wouldn't especially recommend any of those, from what I can remember of them. (The untitled one was sort of cute, being a genderswap thing based on Ranma 1/2, but I never thought it quite made the most of the plot possiblities.)

[kakareen.livejournal.com]

Another reason I need to read LEAGUE. Goddam, that Alan Moore!

[mxdp.livejournal.com]

I've been looking for it as well, but can't seem to find it either. :/ The idea of Jeeves being Bertie's Dad... *shudders* I don't even want to imagine.

How great that you've read it! Well, partly. ^^ I don't think I'd like the book either. Like you said, I'd miss Bertie too much, specially if replaced y such a character. And like you're describing me Jeeves there...not my cup of tea, really...

Maybe I'll have a glance at it one day, just to form my own judgment.

Thanks!

PS: Thank you for learning me a new word as well, btw. YMMV. Nice.

[innocentsmith.livejournal.com]

I just can't imagine why you'd come up with that theory. I mean, even separating it entirely from a slasher's perspective, and taking into account the older book covers and the way they'd often depict Jeeves as a bald fat man in his sixties (which...no), it still doesn't make any sense since we know at least a little about Jeeves's family, and quite a lot about Bertie's. I mean, can you imagine the reaction of any of Bertie's aunts to that? Not to mention, what, he'd faked his own death when Bertie was a child? Or...WTF. *shakes head*

Maybe I'll have a glance at it one day, just to form my own judgment.

Sure, always a good idea to read things for yourself. I'd be interested to know what you think.

Thank you for learning me a new word as well, btw. YMMV. Nice.

Your Mileage May Vary = you may have an entirely different opinion. It is, indeed, a useful acronym for fandom. ^_^

[mxdp.livejournal.com]

You must be quite the loony, yes, to write such stuff. Of course, yes, "YMMV" :D BUT THERE ARE SOME FACTS ONE CAN'T IGNORE. Like, uhm, about EVERYTHING in the books.
And true, Jeeves as a silver-headed elder with a belly just doesn't fit the image I formed. Of course, I am evilly corrupted by Fry, but even without him I imagine my view would be quite similar. Anyway. Just read you found the article. Oh my. *holds breath*

[thirstyrobot.livejournal.com]

Okay, I found the original. SUCH a massive load of rot. The guy completely misses the point. I'm reposting it locked because it's not available for free for some reason. Just pretend you all went to the library and photocopied it.

[georgeodowd.livejournal.com]

I'm allowed to be insulted, right? I mean, by the latter article? (The first one just baffled me.) How could anyone dare to unabashedly rip the Master and then ask people to pay for it? Good Lord. I'm sorry. I'm just... sensitive to these things. I shall wander off into the night and grieve for my lost innocence.

(ok not really)