Newbie Wanders In...

[fusepark.livejournal.com]

Greetings from a fellow fan. I haven't read all the books yet (why would one want to rush?), so along comes the following question:

I am endlessly intrigued by the fact that it is Bertie, in the internal logic of Wodehouse-world, writing these splendid tales. This hapless doofus is the Voice.

Which leads to the following inquiry: in the books, does Jeeves ever find out that Bertie is writing? Does Bertie ever acknowledge that he is writing? Does Wodehouse anywhere say that Bertie wrote them as they happened or that he wrote them later in his life, or is this simply a case of the mystery audience joining Bertie's inner thoughts, if one can call them such, and there is no actual writing being done at all?

And wouldn't Jeeves's discovery of Bertie's writings be an excellent plot bunny, considering that Bertie's writing apparently began with Jeeves's arrival?

Comments

[captainpellew.livejournal.com]

Have you seen the movie(zuh)? I have a question about that myself...

[fusepark.livejournal.com]

I've seen the first two seasons of the BBC series. I'm getting the whole set on DVD for XMas.

[captainpellew.livejournal.com]

Wow that was fast!

[fusepark.livejournal.com]

Computers, computers everywhere...

[captainpellew.livejournal.com]

Bertie doesn't make Jeeves sing falsetto does he???
Every time I get to that part I fast forward through it. I'm a wimp.

[fusepark.livejournal.com]

The horror... the horror...

[meleth.livejournal.com]

Jeeves sings falsetto. It's terrifying. But hilarious at the same time.

[captainpellew.livejournal.com]

NOOOOOOOO!!!!

I now both want to watch it and can't bear to at the same time...

[captainpellew.livejournal.com]

PS, I loooove your icon.

[fusepark.livejournal.com]

Kullervo thanks you.

[mechanicaljewel.livejournal.com]

...

Damn plot bunnies.

::mutters to self:: you have finals. and three slash challenges due on the 15th. your slate is full...

[fusepark.livejournal.com]

You've got lots of time. It'd be fun. How important are finals, anyway?

[innocentsmith.livejournal.com]

Welcome to the community...with a hey-nonny nonny and a hot cha-cha, as Bertie says.

*pounces on meta-canon question...to everyone's shock, I'm sure* Ooh, good question. It's one of the things that makes Bertie most interesting as a character, the way he uses language. A lot of readers and watchers tend to dismiss Bertie, accepting his own disavowal of any wits at face value without noticing that, if nothing else, the boy can write. And yes, he is supposed to be writing them. He frequently addresses his readers directly, and there are several times he refers to the stories as his memoirs...usually in the first few pages of the novels, when he's doing his little apologetic dance about how much exposition to bung in. "If you're one of the better sort, never happier than when curled up with the collected works of B. Wooster..."

*is loonily gratified at being called "one of the better sort"...and amused at the the idea of the books lined up together on the non-fiction/biography shelves of a bookstore. But seriously, if you were a publisher, wouldn't you kill to get your hands on these stories?*

In the first story, "Jeeves Takes Charge," he says he's telling the story about half a dozen years after the events recorded. Since he's about 24 at that time, we deduce that he starts writing when he's around 30. Or we do if we're assuming Bertie ages at all...see previous discussions about the timeline/era of the Saga, and the fact that no one seems to get any older and some engagements appear to go on for, oh, forty years or thereabouts. And there are signs that some events happen after he's started writing. (Or else we assume that Plum wasn't bothering too much with keeping a concordance. But what fun is that?) The thing about Lord Worplesdon taking off for France/marrying Aunt Agatha is the one that comes to mind, but there are others. The funniest part about tracing the timing back to "J Takes C." is that that story concerns Bertie's uncle Willoughby's memoirs, detailing the scandalous fecklessness of his friends years before. (One of whom is Lord Emsworth from Blandings. Florence specifically states that there's a "dreadful" story about Lord E., and I've lain awake nights wondering what the hell the old boy could've done. Lain awake giggling, I mean.) Inspiration for Bertie's own writing? You know he's got a well-thumbed copy of his uncle's book...and it's a souvenir from his first days with Jeeves.

I always wonder, though, about publication. I don't see Bertie sending the manuscripts off to the printers concurrent with the times he's apparently writing them, since, for example, the Wooster code about not bandying a woman's name would be pretty thoroughly broken. Plus, a good 3/4ths of all his acquaintanceship would be out for his blood. Possibly he's writing them--to amuse himself and to get things down when they're still relatively fresh in his mind--to be published in his old age, when Florence Craye is safely married and Aunt Agatha holds her pitiless sway no more.

That's my theory, anyway. And it leaves lots of space for what might be left out...

You're right, that's a fantastic plot bunny.

[sine-que-non767.livejournal.com]

One of whom is Lord Emsworth from Blandings. Florence specifically states that there's a "dreadful" story about Lord E., and I've lain awake nights wondering what the hell the old boy could've done. Lain awake giggling, I mean.)

That's yet another fascinating thing to ponder...

[fusepark.livejournal.com]

I love to imagine that the stories represent an unending, unchanging moment in time and they're all still out there somewhere.

[innocentsmith.livejournal.com]

Well, exactly. I think of the Wodehouseverse as a kind of unchanging, Arcadian AU. Vaguely 20s-30s era, with the Victorian social structure still mostly intact, and most of the ugly bits of the real world left out. There are exceptions, but that's how it always feels to me. The internal logic of coincidence, plot progression, and ethics really make this almost a fantasy world...

And so of course they're still out there. Of course Jeeves and Bertie will never die. Their world is forever sunny and green.

[derien.livejournal.com]

That really is delightful to think about! I tend to try to do the stories I write in his voice as though they were things he'd stuck in a shoebox under the bed, written for his own amusement and not really thinking they'd ever be publishable because of the scandalous relationship with Jeeves. Yes, hmm... I do like where your suggestions are taking my thoughts.

[tootsiemuppet.livejournal.com]

Bertie rather frequently addresses his readership, especially early on in the novels when he's for example repeating what's happened in a previous book (and then fret about whether he's boring the people who've already read it or confusing people who haven't, it's the cutest thing.) Of course, the best thing about Bertie's writing is that he doesn't very often stop to think about what he's writing, so he'll forget words and remember them later on, or throw in these little incertainties, where normally, they'd be restricted to the mind of the author before he ever put pen to paper.

I generally tend to defend Bertie's intelligence on this point. He may not be your typical fons sapientiae or whatever, spouting information like Jeeves can, but any man who can write that well and that effortlessly... *g* Even Plum couldn't do it. But he does have an extraordinary way with words, and he does have a good head for quotes. He may mangle them sometimes, but after he' heard them a couple of times, he'll usually use them often and correctly.

I'm not sure if Jeeves knows he IS writing his memoirs, but I would assume he does. Jeeves, after all; knows everything about Bertie, and he narrated a story himself once. I always had the feeling Bertie put him up to it. Jeeves does think before he writes, so his writing is a lot more subtle. Not that Jeeves would ever forget a word, of course, but he's just a lot more balanced.

I've wondered about publication issues as well, and just assumed his memoirs were published by a relative after his death. Now Jeeves's entries in the Ganymede Club Book, THOSE I would like to read.


*frowns* I don't think I've been at all coherent. Ahem, sorry about that.

[fusepark.livejournal.com]

I started wondering how Bertie would smuggle writing paper into the flat. Maybe he'd write late at night and hence the mid-morning breakfasts? How _would_ he keep a secret from Jeeves?

[meleth.livejournal.com]

The problem isn't that Bertie's not intelligent, it's that he was educated in order to be charming at dinner parties and sit around doing useless things with his gobs and gobs of money. He's meant to make pleasant conversation and be able to take part in a variety of activities (like polo and the like) generally assumed to be the purvey of the rich. So on his own turf, he's just fine, but this is not a lad who was trained to deal with crises. Witty conversation was taught at Eton; crisis management and critical thinking, not so much. He's not stupid so much as he is a victim of his own societal conditioning. Plus all the aunts. Definitely a victim of the aunts.

[innocentsmith.livejournal.com]

he was educated in order to be charming at dinner parties and sit around doing useless things with his gobs and gobs of money

Hee hee. Described this way, Bertie sounds like a pretty Victorian girl of high birth. He just needs some embroidery and a good husband.

I don't disagree, at all, but I think you also have to keep in mind that his class and education (Eton and Oxford) is the same as that of Britain's leaders of that era. Which is what makes the books satirical. When they're mocking the upper classes as ineffectual and self-absorbed, they're mocking the people in power. You can assume that many of the people Bertie's interacting with (members of Parliament, the landed rich, American millionaires, etc.) would actually be very prominent and influential figures. Of course, the foibles of even the villains are sort of lovable because it's a loveable world they're living in, where nothing will ever go too terribly wrong, but if they were funny in this world it'd be in a "oh, my god, these twits are the ones running things?" way. When Plum was up for a knighthood towards the end of his life there were quite a few humorless high-ups who opposed it, not wanting to encourage the Bertie Wooster-ish vision of the British uppper crust that they thought made them look ridiculous. Which just goes to show that silly short-sighted egotism is not one of the things Plum was inventing.

What really makes Bertie different, IMHO, is his modesty/lack of ambitition. He doesn't want to make some spectacular mark on the world, as Aunt Agatha thinks he should, and Florence and Honoria intend to push him into doing. He doesn't think he'd be good at it, and he's sure he wouldn't enjoy it.

He wants to be happy, and to help anyone around him who's unhappy...even if they have no respect for him or are threatening to ruin his own life. He's taken all the old-fashioned lessons about gentlemanly behavior so deeply to heart that he can't stand to see Stiffie Byng cry, even if she's blackmailing him. He can't tell any of his fiancees flat-out that, no actually, he doesn't want to marry them, because that would be unchivalrous and might hurt their feelings. He can't say no to a friend, even if it lands him (Bertie) in jail.

He'd never be able to save himself without Jeeves because he couldn't stand to be as ruthless as Jeeves (or even Psmith, or Bobbie Wickham, for that matter) is. He doesn't mind being insulted by his friends as long as he knows that they really do like him. This quality, sometimes described as amiability and generosity and sometimes as spinelessness, is what so few of the other characters appreciate in him. And yes, I think it has something to do with being raised by aunts and boarding-school culture, and partly with losing both his parents at a young age. And I think it's even the source of the delight of his conversational style...you can't speak or write like that if you're afraid of not being taken seriously. On whatever level of consciousness, Bertie knows most people don't take him seriously; he doesn't want to impress anyone, he wants to entertain. He wants to make his readers happy...a reader is a sort of friend, right?...and he doesn't mind looking silly doing it.

"Angels can fly because they take themselves lightly," --G. K. Chesterton.

[diimmortales.livejournal.com]

I am visiting from the future, and loving your description of his motives. Loving them. I love your Bertie. LOVE.

Well said, old thing.

(Get it? Old thing the affectionate term in the argot of our favoured time, and old thing referring to your location on the chronological landscape. Clever, what?)

[sine-que-non767.livejournal.com]

Love that plotbunny! Is it any coincidence that Bertie began his memoirs in earnest with the very first day Jeeves came into his life...? I think not.

I've never thought about it much, really - just played the author's game at face value and believed that, because Bertie refers back to his previous works, they've been published one at a time as he writes them. But innocentsmith could be right - his entire acquaintance would be fuming, and many girls' names would get dragged through the mud, so publishing them just after the events have occurred doesn't seem feasible...hmm.

I've always believed the story Jeeves writes is due to Bertie asking him to write something. It doesn't seem Jeeves-like to write a story privileging his own point-of-view, almost setting it up in competition with his employer's... But once he had the opportunity, he takes it and doesn't pull any punches - though the tone's subdued, the actual events make Bertie look pretty silly, and I can see Jeeves smiling that quarter-inch smile to himself when Bertie reads it over.

[fusepark.livejournal.com]

It's an interesting idea for a story independent even of the J/W universe. Two people writing about each other, and neither knowing. Although I do picture Jeeves writing poetry rather than prose.

[adina-atl.livejournal.com]

One possibility would be that Bertie is writing and publishing them under a pseudonym. One can't imagine Aunt Agatha or Florence Craye reading such society trash, or recognizing themselves if they did, so it would be relatively safe (and safe from relatives, too).

[fusepark.livejournal.com]

That would be excellent. Perhaps the whole thing is pseudonym within pseudonym. And perhaps the real writer was forced into expatriotism. Perhaps old P.G. himself was fleeing disaprobation!

[smokingthings.livejournal.com]

That's actually one of my favorite things about Bertie as a character, and so often people overlook it- he may be a bit goofy, but he's no idiot. On an inter-fandom note, similarly, that's why I can't stand stupid/bumbling representations of Watson [e.g. Nigel Bruce] - he's no Holmes, but the fact that he wrote all those stories shows he's self-aware and intelligent.

Also, I like the plot bunny. Would make a good challenge, since it could be played so many ways.

[fusepark.livejournal.com]

Yes! Poor Bertie and Watson. Watson moreso because he doesn't have the singular personality Bertie has, but look at his achievements. They would be entirely remarkable but for the presence of the more astonishing Holmes. I'm always so happy when Holmes tells him he's right about something.

And I'd be happy to see many bunnies running around.

[captainpellew.livejournal.com]

Yeah, 'cept when he leads Watson to believe he's right, and then flattens him. ie, Hound

[fusepark.livejournal.com]

True. He does use Watson to lead others in the wrong direction.

[zaccidents.livejournal.com]

Someone has to poke Peak to write that. Seriously.