On MBTI again!?

[horriyuo.livejournal.com]

Hullo, hullo and all that!
A while ago this post was created.

It was discussed that Jeeves would be INTJ as opposed to the suggested ISTJ and that Bertie is an ESFP/ENFP. Feeling like I could add to the discussion I wanted to express my opinions on the matter. This is a very very long description of the personality types and how I typed them of course its up for discussion I just figured it would be useful to some of you.

Firstly I'd like to address how I came about these personality types. Basically what I did was look all the cognitive functions and make a list based off the way each character wrote and what cognitive functions they are likely to use. Personally I think it makes more sense to work out each characters personality type this way as it's slightly more accurate then guessing from the 16 personality types blindly.

So, Jeeves... I wrote his possible cognitive functions whilst reading 'Bertie Changes his mind' as it is written from Jeeves' perspective. I decided that the cognitive functions I saw in the text were 'Ti/e,Si,Ne and Fe/i' making his possible personality types INTP,INFP,ENFP,ISTJ,ISFJ,ESTJ,ESFJ & ENTP. Obviously his cognitive functions need to be put in order of preference otherwise his personality type will be completely wrong.

I think that Jeeves' primary function is 'Ti' which stands for Introverted (or internal if you prefer) Thinking. This means that he uses 'Ti' the most easily. 'Ti' is usually used for problem solving and analysis and is often linked to wanting to understand how things work, people with this function tend to prefer to have control.

His other 'main' function is most likely 'Ne' which stands for Extroverted (or External) Intuition. 'Ne' usually involves predicting possible outcomes to a situation, noticing hidden meanings and coming to conclusions about ideas in one mass group.People with this function often like to 'shape' situations.

So far from deciding his two most used functions we can cut the list down considerably to just one personality type: INTP. Now we need to look at the other two functions and determine whether they fit Jeeves' personality. The next (Tertiary) function for the INTP is 'Si' which stands for Introverted (or Internal) Sensing. This function involves storing data and information from past experience and comparing it to current situations. The last (Inferior) function is 'Fe' which stands for Extroverted (or External) Feeling. This usually involves emphasizing with others on an emotional level, such as making decisions based on a value system concerned with peoples well being.Inferior functions are often dubbed 'aspirational' according to some it shows what people aspire to, so Jeeves aspires to be more concerned with peoples well being, who knew? (This could also show why Jeeves sometimes does things of no advantage to himself, which he usually does.)

Now let's move onto Bertie. The functions I saw when I read 'Jeeves in the Offing' were as follows: 'Fe,Si,Ti/e & Ne/i' this makes his possible personality types INTP,ENTP,ESFJ & ISFJ(Jeeves has considerably more options for some reason) So let's put these in order of use.

I think Bertie is a huge 'Fe' user, 'Fe' stands for Extroverted (or External) Feeling. As discussed earlier 'Fe' involves empathizing with people on an emotional level, and often involves 'the social graces' e.g being polite & considerate.People with this function adhere to social norms and values in order to 'keep the peace'.

His Auxiliary (or Supportive) function is likely to be 'Si' this stands for Introverted (or Internal) Sensing. As explained earlier 'Si' involves storing data from past experiences and comparing it to current situations, things such as seeing somebody who reminds us of somebody else is often thought as 'Si'.

Now we have his personality type: ESFJ as its main two functions are 'Fe' and 'Se'. The other two functions should also fit Bertie's character. The Tertiary function is 'Ne' which stands for Extroverted (or External) Intuition. This as explained earlier involves predicting possible outcomes to a situation and coming to conclusions about ideas in one mass group. The final (inferior) function is 'Ti' as discussed earlier 'Ti' involves problem solving, analysis and is often linked to wanting to understand how things work. As it is his 'aspirational' function it shows that Bertie to a certain extent aspires to be more thought driven. (Which I think is very true as far as Bertie is concerned.)

Now a quick summary about why I don't think Jeeves fits into the particular function set of INTJ, and why Bertie doesn't fit into either ESFP/ENFP.

I don't think Jeeves fits into the INTJ cognitive functions (which are Ni,Te,Fi,Se) Whilst Jeeves is obviously good at grouping ideas I think he uses 'Ne' instead of 'Ni' because 'Ne' explores all the possibilities whereas 'Ni' eliminates the possibilities, another way of putting it is that 'Ni' weighs ideas in their mind whilst 'Ne' finds people to act as sounding boards for their ideas. I think Jeeves prefers to use Bertie and his friends to react to his ideas. Next function to 'de-bunk' is 'Te'. I think Jeeves uses 'Ti' as opposed to 'Te' because 'Ti' is far more 'process-orientated' whereas 'Te' is far more 'product-orientated' put simply Jeeves prefers to solve problems that occur within his everyday life as opposed to controlling things in general. This is probably Jeeves' closet 'i' vs 'e' function. I'm not going to go into Jeeves' other two functions.

The cognitive functions for Bertie's suggested ESFP(Se,Fi,Te,Ni) or ENFP(Ne,Fi,Te,Si) don't fit him because; firstly, I think Bertie uses 'Si' and not 'Se' because 'Se' is more focused on sensing the outside environment for example a person with 'Se' has a better sense of things around them so if somebody were to make a loud noise a person with 'Se' would be more likely to react to it. Another good example of the difference is 'Si' users perceive reality through there own personal conceptions of it whereas 'Se' users perceive what things actually are. The other main conflict in the 3 personality types functions is 'Fi' or 'Fe' to put it simply 'Fe' feels for others whilst 'Fi' feels for self. Bertie is very 'Fe' as far as I am concerned because he is very empathetic and 'Fe' is more about empathy generally whilst 'Fi' reads feelings by internalizing them. Another way of putting it is that 'Fe' is easily influenced by others, so if someone was crying they'd cry too/try to comfort them; whereas 'Fi' is less influenced by others and more by moral implications so if a group of people were crying at a film a 'Fi' user would only cry if something made them cry due to their moral implications.

Wow that was an entirely too long post but hopefully I've started some points for discussion!

Comments

[metanewsmods.livejournal.com]

Hi, can we link to this at metanews?

[horriyuo.livejournal.com]

Sure you an!

[storyfan.livejournal.com]

Interesting. A Sentinel fic I read recently had Blair talking about the Myers-Briggs test so I took a look at it, having never heard of such a test. I tested myself on one of the sites (no idea how accurate it is) and found myself to be an INTP. It was simple test, and the taker could certainly skew the results any way he wanted.

I think it would be fun to examine a lot of fictional characters using this test. For instance, I see Blair (Sentinel) having some of Bertie's traits, especially the tendency to be extroverted. Blair is also thought-driven, but his conclusions tend to be more practical than Bertie's conclusions.

[horriyuo.livejournal.com]

I have 0 clue how accurate the sites are, although saying that my typing from them was pretty much spot-on.

Probably the reason I like Blair so much is that his very much like Bertie, although Blair is somewhat more academic. According to fanlore Blair is 'most likely' an ENTP(cognitive functions: Ne,Ti,Fe & Se)

From my experience its always harder to type characters in TV shows as it's more about your particular feelings about them plus sometimes personalities change due to different writers & such...

[storyfan.livejournal.com]

I would think that in order for accuracy, a test would have to be administered professionally, if that's even possible. It certainly is fun to do it informally with our favorite characters, though. One wonders where Roderick Spode or Stiffy are in the scheme of things.

Hey, it seems to me that Blair and Bertie would get on just fine together. :)

In regard to characters changing as a show progresses or if different writers come on board, I'm especially reminded of Walter White from Breaking Bad. I didn't see the entire series, but from what I can tell, he was a deeply changed many by the end of it.

Thanks for going to so much effort to present us with all this information.

[horriyuo.livejournal.com]

I think you an get trained as a 'professional' by taking a course but it probably costs a lot of money. Spode & Stiffy would be interesting to type, if I had the time I would be up for typing most of the characters.

One of the hardest people to type I've come across who everybody has a different idea about is House... Mainly because he is introverted one episode and extroverted the next. I suppose if somebody tried to work out his cognitive functions it might be easer but he could apply himself to a lot of cognitive functions.

Usually in TV characters don't change too much, considering it'd be an entirely different show. Although Myers-Briggs types are said to change if something major ours in ones life.

That's ok, it's honestly something I generally love to discuss. :)

Agreed...

[godsdaisiechain.livejournal.com]

I realize that this response is late (and also somewhat simplistic)...but I would tend to agree that Jeeves could not possibly be INTJ because (when one reads between the lines of the stories) he is so personable. Everyone likes him, and Bertie constantly describes his looks as "benevolent.' INTJs are not really benevolent...they are unpopular and tend to evoke irritation in others because of their ways of being in the world.

And I would never peg Bertie as a "P' because his whole M.O. is about finding a piece of information and jumping to an intuitive conclusion...that's very "J."

My vote would be that Jeeves is an ENTJ (the natural leader) and Bertie is an INFJ (the protector). It would explain why they cooperate so well and also why Bertie is so consistently driven by intuitive impulses and so kind but also so inarticulate.

Re: Agreed...

[horriyuo.livejournal.com]

Ooh interesting, I've always had Bertie pegged as a extrovert although now I think about he could be an introvert... The P vs. J debate has always been interesting as many people are confused by what P is if they're J and vice versa. Bertie is definitely J though because he thinks in such a linear way.

I think Bertie could be an INFJ although there's a part of me that thinks he uses Si to often however, I did base that off 'Jeeves in the Offing' and one of it's main plot point is including Bertie's old headmaster... So the Si could just be really present because of the storyline.

As far as Jeeves goes I will have to do an intense google session before coming up with any ideas

Re: Agreed...

[godsdaisiechain.livejournal.com]

I'm not super into analyzing all the functions, so it's hard to comment on Se versus Si. I based my choice on the overall profile of INFJ...I thought ENFJ was a possibility, but Bertie seems to want to be alone (or just with Jeeves) when he is tired or stressed. He sleeps a lot and doesn't like to get up and have breakfast with people, for example.

And I thought Jeeves fit ENTJ better than INTJ because he does seem to be able to be the mastermind, but people seem to happily follow his lead. The only people who have issues with Jeeves are those who think servants should not be too smart (Like Mr. Stoker or Aunt Agatha).

Re: Agreed...

[horriyuo.livejournal.com]

When I read back Bertie seems very INFJ... I think the J is definitely apparently when Jeeves disappears on holiday because he is less reliant on him, plus I once ready something along the lines of Js deal with their outside world first, then their inside world. Ps deal with their inside world so they can then deal with their outside world. Practically the only person Bertie doesn't really have some kind of issue with (asking for favours,telling him to get married) is Jeeves he certainly appears not to trust a great deal.

Jeeves could definitely be a slightly more reserved ENTJ (only really reserved due to his career maybe?)There are a lot of common ENTJ traits that fit him too... Driving theories into plans & impatient with incompetence (thinking of the tea making attempt) also I think I read that ENTJ's are more likely to hand-pick 'useful' parts of philosophy which in Jeeves' case makes a lot of sense...

Re: Agreed...

[godsdaisiechain.livejournal.com]

Good! I completely concur with your interpretations and feel very validated in my opinions now. I was somewhat afraid that my personal experience with ENTJ and INFJ family and friends had swayed me.