Kerflummoxed is a fabulous word that I believe needs to be incorporated into everyday speech forevermore.
Oh believe me, I am well aware. Most people think I am a curiosity because I am an art student that reads classical literature for pleasure. Many of my peers limit themselves to graphic novels. It is hard for Jeeves to keep perspective on the literary world when he is forever surrounded by people who think that spine-tinglers and Rosie M. Banks are the very plinth of intellectual reading. xP
I've always found it very interesting to try and imagine what other characters think of Jeeves. Bertie is prone to hyperbole as a narrator, so I often wonder if Jeeves is really as wonderful to others as Bertie seems to think. When left to his own devices Jeeves strikes me as a very dark, malicious sort of character, actually. It could just be me.
Most definitely, a character like that does very little that isn't of his own volition.
Sadly, I have yet to watch Downton Abbey. I was speaking with my grandmother recently and she suggested I watch it, she said 'you'll like it, it's got servants and all that stuff in it'. I feel that I should rectify this very soon.
Very cool! It's a sweet and interesting little story, and I totally agree with your ideas about Bertie as an unreliable narrator and dark!Jeeves . . . It's definitely not just you. I love stories that explore those sides of the characters.
Oh good, I am very glad that I'm not alone in that regard. I was worried I was merely projecting onto them, since I worked for a very long time on a 'the butler did it' type of story. XD I love them too. I could easily barricade myself somewhere and read them for days and be perfectly content.
Having never read the stories in proper order I can neither agree not disagree with you.
Though I'm quite certain that 'Much Obliged, Jeeves' or 'The Tie that Binds' came on much later in the series, and that was the story in which he conceded that yes, he did drug Bingley in order to rob him and yes, he does carry such drugs on his person at all times. I don't know about you, but I found that to be one of the more alarming instances of 'WAIT a minute, he WHAT?!' in the series. XD
The tie that binds is quite late (and I completely agree that this was rather unsettling, although Bingley was known to try and stab people with a carving knife, so Jeeves's caution might have been warranted) Jeeves also carries a cosh about with him.
This is true, though I have a feeling that Jeeves may have drugged him regardless. He stood between Jeeves and the book, and I think Jeeves might be far less lenient with people that aren't connected to Mister Wooster when they stand between him and his goals.
I had completely forgotten about that! Yes, upon consideration I think dark!Jeeves is more fact than theory.
I found Bingley to be pretty scary myself... unlike all those 'decent' chaps Jeeves would find for Bertie during the Jeevesian holiday weeks. Besides, one wonders how much Jeeves had at stake in that book...not just the ostensible 18 pages but anything else he knew or wrote.
dark!Jeeves is certainly an element... but then he does adore Mr. Wooster and his heart of gold. ; )
Very true. I honestly do think that he would not be above being equally harsh toward anyone else if the need arose for whatever reason. He isn't above trying to smack house boys that make offhand comments about his appearance or coshing police constables, after all.
As much as I hate to think of the prospect, I always felt that Jeeves' motives for staying in Bertie's employ were far less sincere than that. It feels a lot like Jeeves fights to stay in Mister Wooster's entourage mainly because Mister Wooster gives him free reign. Jeeves can do anything he pleases, and Bertie will either simply let him or be easily manipulated into doing so if he resists. It is a comfy position for Jeeves, because as I believe it was Steven Ferry of the International Institute of Modern Butlers said, 'Very few employers will be as "mentally negligible" as Bertie Wooster.' XD
I totally see your point. Consider also that Bill Rowcester also gives Jeeves free reign (and he is both dumber and better-looking than Bertie--actually a lot of the Drones are dumber than Bertie) but Jeeves goes running back as soon as Bertie whistles and he describes their relations as 'uniformly cordial' which is exactly how he describes Chuffy and Pauline when they are in love but separated by forces beyond their control. Plus, Bill is a chum of Bertie's and Jeeves works for him for free.
I think that Jeeves is genuinely fond of Mr. Wooster (he says he is in his only story) and the fact that all of Bertie's friends and relations give him extravagant tips, Bertie is very generous with the time off, and he has plenty of time for bookmaking on the side don't hurt either. But I also think that all the 'henpecking' and weeping on the Jeevesian neck and the bad fights they have in the early stories when Bertie engages in 'bohemian revels' could be read a certain way.
You make a very good case for the 'Jeeves is not inherently evil' party, I must say. XD
Yes, a lot of Bertie's choices in words give me pause. I try to tell myself that I'm only reading what I want to into it, but sometimes I feel like there isn't any possible way Wodehouse could have not done that on purpose. There is one particular instance, I forget the exact story it's from, but near the end when all is right as rain Bertie says of Jeeves "I found myself wanting to do all sorts of things to show my appreciation and gratitude toward him." My mind practically sprinted to some rather socially indecent places.
You are too kind. ^^ Sadly I have been quite busy with other projects lately (I just finished illustrating a childrens book I wrote in high school. Very exciting stuff) but I do intend to pick it up when inspiration strikes and time allows. Don't worry, I haven't discarded it xP
I think that Jeeves could be inherently evil if he let himself, but that Bertie redeems him without being much aware of it....
...and I was completely thinking of that same exact line when I wrote that other comment.... It's in "Jeeves and the Unbidden Guest" (I have it right here on my futon). And he actually says it's like those novels where the chap calls off the fight with his wife and wants to do all sorts of things for her. I am sure that no right-thinking Joosterian would think of anything beside chaste cuddles (and whatnot).
no subject
Date: 2013-03-21 10:46 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-03-22 01:57 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-03-22 12:19 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-03-22 01:55 am (UTC)Kerflummoxed is a fabulous word that I believe needs to be incorporated into everyday speech forevermore.
Oh believe me, I am well aware. Most people think I am a curiosity because I am an art student that reads classical literature for pleasure. Many of my peers limit themselves to graphic novels.
It is hard for Jeeves to keep perspective on the literary world when he is forever surrounded by people who think that spine-tinglers and Rosie M. Banks are the very plinth of intellectual reading. xP
no subject
Date: 2013-03-22 11:29 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-03-22 07:34 pm (UTC)I've always found it very interesting to try and imagine what other characters think of Jeeves. Bertie is prone to hyperbole as a narrator, so I often wonder if Jeeves is really as wonderful to others as Bertie seems to think. When left to his own devices Jeeves strikes me as a very dark, malicious sort of character, actually. It could just be me.
no subject
Date: 2013-03-22 10:39 pm (UTC)For fun, I imagine him visiting Downton Abbey with Bertie. I'm quite certain he'd know how to deal with Miss O'Brien and Thomas Barrow.
no subject
Date: 2013-03-23 01:57 am (UTC)Sadly, I have yet to watch Downton Abbey. I was speaking with my grandmother recently and she suggested I watch it, she said 'you'll like it, it's got servants and all that stuff in it'. I feel that I should rectify this very soon.
no subject
Date: 2013-03-24 05:34 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-03-24 08:02 pm (UTC)Oh good, I am very glad that I'm not alone in that regard. I was worried I was merely projecting onto them, since I worked for a very long time on a 'the butler did it' type of story. XD
I love them too. I could easily barricade myself somewhere and read them for days and be perfectly content.
no subject
Date: 2013-03-26 01:13 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-03-26 06:50 am (UTC)Though I'm quite certain that 'Much Obliged, Jeeves' or 'The Tie that Binds' came on much later in the series, and that was the story in which he conceded that yes, he did drug Bingley in order to rob him and yes, he does carry such drugs on his person at all times. I don't know about you, but I found that to be one of the more alarming instances of 'WAIT a minute, he WHAT?!' in the series. XD
no subject
Date: 2013-03-26 11:17 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-03-26 03:27 pm (UTC)I had completely forgotten about that! Yes, upon consideration I think dark!Jeeves is more fact than theory.
no subject
Date: 2013-03-27 12:00 am (UTC)dark!Jeeves is certainly an element... but then he does adore Mr. Wooster and his heart of gold. ; )
no subject
Date: 2013-03-27 04:49 am (UTC)As much as I hate to think of the prospect, I always felt that Jeeves' motives for staying in Bertie's employ were far less sincere than that. It feels a lot like Jeeves fights to stay in Mister Wooster's entourage mainly because Mister Wooster gives him free reign. Jeeves can do anything he pleases, and Bertie will either simply let him or be easily manipulated into doing so if he resists. It is a comfy position for Jeeves, because as I believe it was Steven Ferry of the International Institute of Modern Butlers said, 'Very few employers will be as "mentally negligible" as Bertie Wooster.' XD
no subject
Date: 2013-03-27 08:22 pm (UTC)I think that Jeeves is genuinely fond of Mr. Wooster (he says he is in his only story) and the fact that all of Bertie's friends and relations give him extravagant tips, Bertie is very generous with the time off, and he has plenty of time for bookmaking on the side don't hurt either. But I also think that all the 'henpecking' and weeping on the Jeevesian neck and the bad fights they have in the early stories when Bertie engages in 'bohemian revels' could be read a certain way.
.... just saying
no subject
Date: 2013-03-27 08:23 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-03-27 08:41 pm (UTC)Yes, a lot of Bertie's choices in words give me pause. I try to tell myself that I'm only reading what I want to into it, but sometimes I feel like there isn't any possible way Wodehouse could have not done that on purpose. There is one particular instance, I forget the exact story it's from, but near the end when all is right as rain Bertie says of Jeeves "I found myself wanting to do all sorts of things to show my appreciation and gratitude toward him." My mind practically sprinted to some rather socially indecent places.
You are too kind. ^^
Sadly I have been quite busy with other projects lately (I just finished illustrating a childrens book I wrote in high school. Very exciting stuff) but I do intend to pick it up when inspiration strikes and time allows. Don't worry, I haven't discarded it xP
no subject
Date: 2013-03-27 08:58 pm (UTC)...and I was completely thinking of that same exact line when I wrote that other comment.... It's in "Jeeves and the Unbidden Guest" (I have it right here on my futon). And he actually says it's like those novels where the chap calls off the fight with his wife and wants to do all sorts of things for her. I am sure that no right-thinking Joosterian would think of anything beside chaste cuddles (and whatnot).
: )