indeedsir_backup | (no subject)

I've often found Bertie in the books to be rather more aggressive than Bertie in the fanfics so yes, I think they would be able to work something out. At least, Jeeves will...Those ancestors at Agincourt must be good for *something*.

He's more aggressive in the books than in the TV series, as well. Focus on the books, and you really lose the perfect little sub we see so much in fandom.

I... don't know, but I'll give it my thought. *starts daydreaming*

YES, haha. This is precisely what I did.

Oh my... Now, I've got matura exams tomorrow and day after tomorrow and I think I won't be able to concentrate now... Oh, nevermind, masochist!Jeeves-- how cool is that?

This isn't the best thing for me to be musing about the day after I find out that one of my friends is still cutting herself.

Still, this could either result in a hurt/comfort fic (the obvious route) or this: Bertie agrees to violent sex with Jeeves; the latter has his bizzare fetish satisfied but the former is horribly traumatized by the experience of deliberately hurting his beloved valet.

Someone please write that. I'm afraid my summer LARP takes my writing priority at the moment.

I may well write it, because it would still be an h/c fic. There's a phenomenon known as 'top drop', which refers to any kind of letdown after a scene, but particularly refers to cases where the top sits there after the dust has cleared and goes 'Wow, I did all those cruel things to another human being and I loved it. I'm a terrible person.' Which you *know* is just what Bertie would do, bless his clueless little heart.

DO IT

LATEST COMMENT IN THE HISTORY OF ANYTHING (I'm reading the discussion tag on indeedsir to catch up on what I missed), but: dude! I had no idea about this! I've written stuff with characters dealing with this, but didn't know it was An Actual Issue with A Name and everything. Thanks for bringing this up!

You're welcome. Human sexuality and pornography are things I've actually studied, making me a sex geek. I'm always glad to pass it along. XD

I... I have such a hard time with questions like this in Wodehouse fandom, because everything is so goddamn happy all the time. It's the one fandom where I'm not afraid to click links to new fic because I know there's no risk of me spontaneously crying in the middle of public places (looking at you, House fandom).

At the same time, I totally think Jeeves has a masochistic side to him, whether he realizes it or not. But I think it's entirely emotional-- you don't fall in love with someone that oblivious unless you don't mind your emotions getting trampled on. Jeeves, I think, would be into the mind games that are so essential to true masochism. A sincere loss of power, believing himself to be deserving of scorn, etc etc.

I just can't imagine actually writing that fic. Someone else totally should, though.

Yes - I can picture that as plausible (if BDSM can ever be plausible in Jooster). Since Jeeves is so often called on to deal with everyone's troubles, and has to be so responsible all the time, he's a character you can truly imagine getting relief from being controlled for once.

Oh gosh, don't give me ideas, I have enough of them already... I should go before I start to twist the plot I already have in mind and leave this to more talented writers.

Thank god the schoolday is over, I'm gonna do now some daydreaming.

(no lj, I'm not yet willing to pay a penny just for the fun of editing comments)

Have you guys btw checked the further reading -book selection at wiki's BDSM-page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BDSM#Further_reading)? Because the first book just made me laugh... Ties that bind by Guy Baldwin. Can we call this almost canon now? *smirk*

I tend to wince at the word "hardcore". But then we've had very, very generous helpings of painful, aggressive, uncomfortable, violent and even very kinky sex in Jooster fanfiction. Whipping, hardcore bondage, twisted positions, you've written 'em all. Albeit the most *mild* example being that Bertie begs to to be fucked till he's extremely sore (in past as well as recent fics), and Jeeves obliging only too happily.

Do these multitude of fics portray Bertie as a masochist?

If so, I wouldn't really mind if he experimented to oblige Jeeves' desires.

By 'hardcore' I mean an actual painslut. There's "I'm enduring this for you, master <3" and then there's pain actually being its own reward. Most people are much more of the first sort, since it usually takes a boatload of endorphins to make this stuff actually fun. I'm thinking of the kind of sexuality where if he was cutting himself, it would just be to help him jerk off.

I honestly don't see him as a masochist, at all. I don't see Bertie as a masochist, either.

I DEFINITELY see Jeeves as the top and Bertie as the bottom, though in my mind, they sometimes switch. Jeeves just seems more Dom to me.

Which isn't incompatible with a love of pain. It's less that I suppose he is than that I wonder if Bertie could find the cojones to hurt him at all, much less to enjoy it.

Oh, I know! But in their relationship, I don't see much S&M, only D&S.

Absolutely. I'm more wondering if one could write convincing S&M for these two than really advancing the position.

D&S?

Dominance and Submission

Ah. Yeah, that does make a lot of sense for this pairing.

Ooh...DS could work well.

I have a feeling that Jeeves could talk Bertie into almost anything.

And the way the boys are in my head, Bertie would go along with anything that involves playing with his nipples...I can see some clamps coming his way ;)

I lingered here for three years till I finally figured out that the portrayal of a voluntarily dominant Jeeves & an eagerly submissive Bertie was the eternal law of this community, engraved in stone. We have truckloads and truckloads and truckloads and truckloads and truckloads and truckloads of stories to prove this. And by the looks of it, truckloads and truckloads are still to come.

I really don't know if a masochist Jeeves would help in a transfer of power to Bertie's hands, because it saddens me that the utterly fundamental question of a switch would involve excruciating pain for one.

Nonetheless, you guys give it your best, tackle the characterisation, and make it worthwhile.

I don't *quite* buy Jeeves as a pain-slut. Partially because he is a resident of Wodehouse-happy-land, but I just don't see it in his personality.

D/S, and bondage, are things I can visualize for the pair of them with no effort at all, however. Bondage especially. I blame it on 'The Tie That Binds'.

But none of it hardcore. And in my head, they switch. Bertie has to talk Jeeves into it, because Jeeves is so uncomfortable with giving up control. But Bertie enjoys bottoming so much, he wants to show Jeeves how that feels. So he insists. And get his way. And Jeeves discovers he likes it.

And I really picture Bertie as the "Well, let's try it!" type. Good, Giving, and Game.

After all, I've heard that the tops/Doms are outnumbered significantly by the bottoms/subs.

We all want to submit, at least a little, but not all of us want to Dominate.

And I really picture Bertie as the "Well, let's try it!" type. Good, Giving, and Game.

Another super-super-late comment, but I would give anything to read Jeeves and Bertie writing a letter to Savage Love.